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What you are looking for is..... (Link in the Desc.)2

2020.11.27 00:26 RepresentativeBus685 What you are looking for is..... (Link in the Desc.)2

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2020.11.26 18:41 Jprhino84 Content Update: Britmas arrives alongside a flood of new and returning content including many Christmas specials, pantomimes, Rising Damp in full, Channel 5 programming and more

Buckle in, boys and girls. This is going to be an epic, selection box of a read. So, let's get started, shall we?
We begin with every episode of '70s classic Rising Damp. This includes the 1975 Christmas special, listed separately as part of Britmas. We'll get to that later. Rising Damp is broken down into 5 series (with the pilot episode on its own). The overall synopsis is as follows:
Leonard Rossiter, Frances de la Tour, Richard Beckinsale and Don Warrington star in this classic 70s comedy set in a tumbledown boarding house. Follow the ups and downs of landlord Rigsby and his long-suffering tenants Ruth, Alan and Philip.

Next up, we have a large slate of Channel 5 programming. Here is the full list:
Meet the uber privileged youngsters whose rich parents will stop at nothing to give them what they want. Think private zoos, super yachts and fancy cars. Nothing is too grand for these billionaire babes.
Documentary shining a light on both the most famous and lesser known shops that carry the royal warrant. From cheese to chocolate, books to bespoke suits, the royals don't do shopping centres.
Documentary exploring the royal couple’s enduring romance. Discover how their scandalous love affair transformed into a loving partnership that saw Camilla win the nation’s hearts.
Crime documentary examining the clues that caught serial killers Fred and Rose West. In his first ever documentary interview, investigating officer Terry Moore reveals the details of the police work that resulted in Rose West's conviction.
Crime documentary investigating the murder of two former Eastenders stars, Gemma McCluskie and Sian Blake. Follow the final days of both women before their tragic deaths and hear insights from friends & experts.
Survivors of the Grenfell Tower tragedy recount their experiences in this poignant documentary. On 14th June 2017, a fire broke out in a West London tower block that would have devastating consequences & spark a national debate on housing.
Documentary exploring the turbulent history of Cadbury’s. For almost 200 years, it’s been the home of chocolate, making a staggering 350 tonnes of milk chocolate a day but life hasn’t always been sweet for the firm.
Catch Danny Dyer, Jimmy Carr, Alesha Dixon & other celebs as they strut their stuff on stage in this utterly bonkers musical reality show. Watch them go head to head in the ultimate lip syncing challenge!
Intimate doc series exploring the extraordinary lengths that ordinary people go to in order to get their ideal body. From those forking out thousands on plastic surgery to those piercing & painting every inch of their skin, hear their stories.
Royal doc exploring how the Queen’s only daughter comes across in public. Despite being born into a male dominated world, Anne has survived a kidnap attempt, divorce and even an Olympic Game, so how does she do it?
Reality show following five girls as they spy on their boyfriends to work out if they are 'the one'. Watch as their oblivious lovers head off on a VIP trip thinking they're filming a TV show about being on a mates’ holiday.

There's still more, as the "Centre Stage" collection - the hub for everything pertaining to the arts - was also treated to an update today with the following 3 additions:
Enjoy the world famous Cirque du Soleil, a mixture of circus arts and street entertainment that produces incredible theatrical events.
Lavish screen adaptation of the National Theatre play starring Laurence Olivier as one of Shakespeare's most controversial characters - the moneylender, Shylock.
Alec Guinness stars in this merry Shakespeare farce about the muddling up of lives and loves. Expect slapstick, puns and double entendres galore. Hundreds of years after it was written and it’s still a bleeding riot.
Not wanting to miss the party, Channel 4 has also made an appearance today with Diana: The Truth Behind The Interview, which originally aired last month and investigates the machinations of the infamous 1995 Panorama interview.
Princess Diana's 1995 interview with the BBC stunned the world. Twenty five years later, insiders reveal the story behind one of the most momentous programmes in the history of TV.

And finally, we come to today's main event - Britmas 2020, featuring a large variety of Christmas specials, pantomimes and more. The new and returning additions are as follows:
Christmas Special 1985. WWII comedy starring Gordon Kaye as a French café owner. Rene gets himself tangled up in a string of murder plots when General Von Klinkerhoffen decides to stick around & get more involved in controlling the district.
Christmas Special 1991. WWII comedy starring Gordon Kaye as French café owner Rene. Hoping for a bit of peace now the British airmen have made it back to Blighty, Rene is shocked to discover that Yvette is pregnant. Sacre bleu!
Christmas Special 1993. The Porters & their friend Rona decide to spend a relaxing Christmas with Bette and Auntie Pearl in a country hotel. Of course it doesn't quite go to plan...
A modern take on Dickens. Loan shark Eddie Scrooge has his local housing estate in a grip of fear, but on the night before Christmas he is visited by the ghost of his ex-partner.
Follow the story of Aladdin and his magic lamp in this panto featuring music from S Club 7. Starring Patsy Kensit & Paul Merton.
Christmas Special 1983. Christopher Timothy stars as the country vet in James Herriot’s 1940s tales of rural Yorkshire. After the war, James struggles to adjust to normal life and the new addition to the family.
Christmas Special 1985. Christopher Timothy stars as the good-natured vet in James Herriot’s 1940s tales of rural Yorkshire. Whether rescuing dogs from peat bogs or separating livestock from their flock, there’ll be no rest for this poor vet.
Christmas Special 1990. When Tristan discovers that the attractive new school teacher is part of the bell-ringing team, he decides to try his hand at campanology. Meanwhile, the brothers fall out over the treatment of an enormous wolfhound.
Christmas Special 1975. Bafta-nominated comedy set in a department store in 70s London. The staff are called to an early morning meeting to discuss boosting Christmas sales. But, someone’s already had a bright idea – and it involves novelty costumes.
Christmas Special 1976. Grace Brothers desicion to have electric Father Christmas models fails so they try and find a human replacement, but which staff member will make the cut?
Christmas Special 1979. Bafta-nominated comedy set in a department store in 70s London. The floor staff are desperate to win back their colleagues’ goodwill after not joining their strike, so they come up with a cunning plan.
Christmas Special 1986: John Nettles stars as the Jersey detective who's asked to delve into some supernatural myths when an ageing millionairess gets drawn in by a psychic who claims to speak to the dead.
Christmas Special 1987. John Nettles stars as the Jersey detective who investigates a series of robberies and a murder that become increasingly complicated by the return of his arch nemesis, Philippa Vale.
Christmas Special 1988. John Nettles stars as the Jersey detective who travels to Spain to deal with someone who has been threatening Charlie, and then finds himself caught up in a gangland power struggle.
Christmas Special 1989. John Nettles stars as the Jersey detective who gets asked by a recently-freed prisoner to investigate a historic murder case, believing that he was framed for the killing of a former gangster.
Christmas Special 1990. John Nettles stars as the Jersey detective who, now living in Provence, offers to assist Albert with his grape harvest, but the arrival of two other young helpers causes problems.
Lenny Henry stars in this magical festive tale from Richard Curtis. Bernard is having a rubbish Christmas after being betrayed by his fiance, best friend and boss. But when he rubs an antique lamp and things start to change, quite explosively!
Christmas Special 1989. Christmas with the Boswells is anything but quiet as Nellie and Jack get to see some turkeys and the family have their Christmas presents stolen.
Christmas Special 1990. Peter Howitt stars in Carla Lane’s classic sitcom about life for the cash-strapped Boswell clan in 80s Liverpool. Mrs Boswell discovers, to her dismay, that sometimes it’s the smallest things that cause the biggest headaches.
Christmas Special 1979. Carla Lane’s bittersweet 70s comedy about a frustrated suburban housewife stars Wendy Craig & Nicholas Lyndhurst. Despite the stress of cooking for Christmas, Ria’s hopes are lifted by the thought of meeting her admirer.
Robson Green & Mark Benton star as ultra competitive brothers in law who take their friendly rivalry to extremes when decorating their houses one Christmas. Have they gone too far this time?
Catch Simon Nye's comic interpretation of the classic fairy tale, with an all-star cast including Ronnie Corbett, Frank Skinner & Sian Phillips. Poor Cinderella is badly treated by her ugly stepsisters, until her Fairy Godmother arrives to help.
Coronation Street cast including Debra Stephenson & Bradley Walsh star as classic panto characters in this special show crammed with songs, comedy and special effects, combining a selection of the nation's favourite pantomimes.
Sue Johnston narrates this celebration of the best festive moments from almost six decades of TV’s longest-running soap. Delving into the archives, the programme showcases storylines about betrayals, break-ups, weddings and more.
Christmas Special 1989. Richard Briars, Penelope Wilton & Peter Egan star in this classic 80s sitcom. Self-styled backbone of the local community Martin gets an offer to relocate for work, but what would the community do without him?!
Christmas Special 1985. From the creators of Dad’s Army comes this Bafta-winning 80s sitcom. When the staff at Maplins holiday camp realise a burglar was a former camper, they wonder if he left any of his ill-gotten gains behind...
Paul Merton narrates this panto classic from London's Old Vic. Written by Simon Nye, it captures the tale of young Jack in typically boisterous fashion with stars including Griff Rhys Jones, Denise Van Outen & Julian Clary.
Christmas Special 1983. The boys visit Sam in hospital and agree to help him spend one last night with his 'other woman', but Ivy gets suspicious.
Christmas Special 1985. Edie and Wesley's daughter, Glenda, is marrying the hapless but kind-hearted Barry.
Christmas Special 1987. It's the annual garden fete at Dream Acres - Nora Batty is VIP waitress and a tramp who has taken a special interest in a particular donkey.
Peter Capaldi & Neil Dudgeon star in Tony Jordan's take on the story of the Nativity set in the troubled times of turn-of-the millennium Judea.
Christmas Special 1984. Classic 80s sitcom. Arthur Crabtree is feeling miserly and decides on a frugal Christmas - his family, however, goes to the other extreme with hilarious consequences.
Christmas Special 1987. Arthur becomes a hero after foiling a supermarket raid.
Documentary which takes a look behind the scenes of four traditional pantos staged in North West England, all of which are put together by amateur dramatic groups.
Christmas Special 1975. Leonard Rossiter, Don Warrington, Richard Beckinsale & Gay Rose star in this classic 70s sitcom. Rigsby thinks that Philip has got him the Christmas present of his dreams but, as usual, it’s not what it seems.
Animated comedy about a reindeer called Robbie. When Robbie's wedding is halted by the presence of a sinister crystal and his fiance is kidnapped, Robbie finds himself on a mission to stop the destruction of the planet by the evil Vorkan.
Christmas Special 1974. Michael Crawford & Michele Dotrice star as the disaster-prone husband and long-suffering wife in this much-loved 70s sitcom. Frank tries to get a new job, while also causing havoc at the church nativity play.
Christmas Special 1978. Classic 70s comedy starring Michael Crawford and Michele Dotrice. Frank’s had a thrilling offer from a relative living abroad – and it involves learning to fly!
Christmas Special 1974. Final episode of the classic comedy starring Harry H Corbett & Wilfred Brambell. Harold’s had enough of Christmas at home and plans a trip abroad. But Albert isn’t so keen, in fact he’d rather go to Bognor than abroad…
With the fforbes-Hamiltons always providing the church's crib, Audrey, Marjory and Old Ned, who is acting as Audrey's butler while Brabinger is visiting his granddaughter, make a crib.
25 years after their hugely popular love-hate relationship was finally resolved in marriage, we revisit the happy couple for a one-off special as they prepare to celebrate their silver wedding anniversary.

And as if all of THAT festive frivolity isn't enough for one day, the soaps are joining in too! First, Eastenders has returned to the service with a "Christmas Specials" boxset that features the following:
There's a divorce, a proposal and a good old sing-along in the Queen Vic on Christmas Eve.
Dirty Den serves up the cruelest of Christmas presents to poor wife Angie.
Everyone's celebrating but Arthur Fowler finds the Christmas cheer all too much.
The Vic is full of Christmas cheer while the Fowlers put on a brave face.
Robbie gets caught eating turkey while Pat confronts ghosts from her past.
Grant's freedom is in the balance.
Bianca and Grant are forced to put aside their differences.
Alfie prepares to leave the square. Will Kat be going with him?
The drama continues in Albert square on Christmas day.
Dot tries to stop Pauline leaving the Square for good, but can she convince her?
Sonia's decision to confront Pauline ends disastrously.
The Beales family are in for a very tense Christmas dinner.
After watching the explosive video, tensions are running high...

Secondly, Emmerdale has added the 1979 Christmas special:
As final preparations are made for the Pantomime, Annie makes a discovery.

And wrapping everything up. Coronation Street has added 13 more Yuletide episodes to the archive (bringing the total overall count in the last 7 days to the promised 60):
Christmas Day. The men go to a sports outing and the wives prepare the dinner.
It's Christmas panto time but Cinderella hits a few snags.
Vera Lomax lies dying but is suspicious of Ena's sudden concern.
Elsie is pensive at the thought of moving to America.
The Street's residents put on a pantomime, with Lucille as Aladdin.
The residents celebrate Christmas Day in The Rovers, with Ena on the piano.
The residents of the Street put on a 1940s show in the Rovers.
The Barlows' Christmas is spoilt when Susan agrees to go for a drink at a hotel.
Ken reports Deirdre missing to the police. Alec employs Vera behind the bar.
Vera has an exhausting Christmas running the Rovers.
Christmas Day. The Duckworths stage a sit-in at the Rovers.
Claire has news for Ashley. Mike is scared and distressed.
It's all kicking off as Nick & Peter come to blows, and Bethany's secret gets out.
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2020.11.21 19:06 FaithHemp What you are looking for is..... (Link in the Desc.)4

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2020.10.14 20:33 TheGreenWeaver FBI interviews with ex-DOJ official Bruce Ohr released to Senate investigators @LindseyGrahamSC @SenRonJohnson obtained @CBSNews “Glen Simpson at Fusion GPS hired OHR's wife, Nellie Ohr, to conduct research for his firm.

submitted by TheGreenWeaver to FBIConspiracy [link] [comments]


2020.10.14 20:03 heavyshreadin FBI interviews with ex-DOJ official Bruce Ohr released to Senate investigators @LindseyGrahamSC @SenRonJohnson obtained @CBSNews “Glen Simpson at Fusion GPS hired OHR's wife, Nellie Ohr, to conduct research for his firm.

FBI interviews with ex-DOJ official Bruce Ohr released to Senate investigators @LindseyGrahamSC @SenRonJohnson obtained @CBSNews “Glen Simpson at Fusion GPS hired OHR's wife, Nellie Ohr, to conduct research for his firm.
submitted by heavyshreadin to conspiracy [link] [comments]


2020.10.04 17:45 Shigalyov Humiliated and Insulted - from the biography by Joseph Frank

From Dostoevsky: A Writer in his TIme, Chapter 23, starting p317, by Joseph Frank
I am sharing these excerpts so people can know what this book is about. We want to start reading it together for the book discussion, but I first want to see if people would be interested. If not we can decide on something else. Otherwise we can start reading it very soon.
This is a long excerpt, so only read what you like. I marked as spoilers the important parts. The headings in bold are my own additions to help you find what you think is important without having to waste your time.

Origin and reception
Dostoevsky’s novel The Insulted and Injured (Unizhennye i oskorblennye), began to appear as a serial in the first issue of Time and ran through seven numbers of the journal. The work encountered a mixed critical reception, but it was read with avid attention and achieved its purpose of making readers impatient for the next installment.
...
The Insulted and Injured is by far the weakest of Dostoevsky’s six major post-Siberian novels. Nor did Dostoevsky himself have any illusions about the quality of his own creation. “I recognize fully,” he publicly admitted several years later, “that in my novel there are many characters who are puppets and not human beings, perambulating books and not characters who have taken on artistic form (this really requires time and a gestation of ideas in the mind and the soul)” (20: 134). Whatever its manifest flaws, however, The Insulted and Injured allows us to catch the author in a stage of transition, trying his hand for the first time at mastering the technique of the roman-feuilleton and also giving new character-types, themes, and motifs their initial, inchoate expression.

Plot
(The following details are revealed in the first chapter or two of the book, so I did not mark them as spoilers)
The Insulted and Injured is composed of two interweaving plot lines, which at first seem to have little to do with each other but then gradually draw together as the story unfolds. The first, typical of the sentimental Romantic novel, concerns an impoverished gentry family, the Ikhmenyevs. Their daughter, Natasha, falls in love with Alyosha, the son of a wealthy neighbor, Prince Valkovsky; and when the prince frowns on their romance because he has destined Alyosha for a wealthy heiress, the two young people run away and live together out of wedlock. As a result, Natasha is renounced by her outraged father, Nikolay Sergeevich Ikhmenyev, not only for having disgraced the family escutcheon but also because Prince Valkovsky, once a friend and supposed benefactor, has now become his deadly enemy.
The crux of this plot line is the mutual unhappiness of Natasha and her father, who love each other deeply despite her lethal blow to the family pride and his furious condemnation of her scandalous behavior.
The second plot line introduces the roman-feuilleton Gothic element of mystery, secret intrigue, and venal betrayal. It focuses on the figure of little Nellie, a thirteen-year-old Petersburg waif, whom the narrator, a young novelist named Ivan Petrovich—a foster-son of the Ikhmenyevs, and once engaged to to Natasha—meets by chance. Intrigued by the eccentric appearance of an old man in a coffeehouse, the young observer of life follows him into the street and, when the oldster>! collapses and dies on the spot!<, moves into his dingy room.
The deceased man was the grandfather of little Nellie, who comes to visit him and finds Ivan Petrovich occupying his quarters. Little Nellie is rescued from the clutches of a procuress by her new acquaintance and his friend Masloboev, an ex-schoolteacher leading a shady existence on the edge of the Petersburg underworld but still retaining some traces of the moral idealism of his youth. Ivan Petrovich takes Nellie in to live with him, looks after her welfare, and gradually pieces together the pathetic story of her appalling existence.
By a coincidence typical of the roman-feuilleton, she turns out to be—as we learn at the very end of the book—[MAJOR SPOILERS]the prince’s abandoned daughter. Valkovsky had seduced her mother, persuaded his infatuated young wife to rob her wealthy father, Jeremy Smith, and then had discarded her and their child once he had obtained possession of the money. The two plots finally come together when, in order to reconcile Natasha with her father, and at the prompting of Ivan Petrovich, Nellie tells the heart-rending story of her life. Painting in dismal colors the refusal of her grandfather to forgive her mother even as she lay destitute and dying on the floor of a dank Petersburg hovel, Nellie’s piteous tale brings about the forgiveness of Natasha and defeats the plan of the villainous Valkovsky to throw the unprotected girl into the arms of the lecherous old Count Nainsky.

The villain Valkovsky
(Avoid this section if you do not want to know his motivations right now. These are not huge spoilers, but you can always read it later)
Valkovsky, as we see, thus criticizes Ivan Petrovich in much the same terms as the young author himself uses for Ikhmenyev and Nellie’s mother. The actual creator of Poor Folk is now placing his previous artistic self, and the values inspiring his early work, among the manifestations of that “naïve Romanticism” whose shortcomings his new novel sets out to expose. And this debunking of Ivan Petrovich becomes even more pointed when Prince Valkovsky displays his familiarity with the idea-feelings of his interlocutor. For it turns out that the Prince is not simply an inveterate blackguard but is himself a disillusioned idealist who “ages ago, in the golden days of my youth,” as he sardonically explains, once too had had “a fancy to become a metaphysician and philanthropist, and came round almost to the same idea as you.” He too had “wanted to be a benefactor of humanity, to found a philanthropic society,” and had even constructed a model hospital on his estate. But boredom had finally got the better of him— boredom, and a sense of the ultimate futility of existence. “We shall die—and what comes then!” he exclaims; and “well, so I took to dangling after the girls.” Alas, the protesting husband of “one little shepherdess” was flogged so badly that he died in the model hospital (3: 361).
...
On being reproached for his “beastliness” by the indignant narrator, the Prince retorts that all such estimable remonstrances are “nonsense.” Moral obligations are a sham because, “What isn’t nonsense is personality—myself.” For his own part, he proclaims, “I . . . have long since freed myself from all shackles, and even moral obligations. I only recognize obligations when I see I have something to gain by them. . . . You long for the ideal, for virtue. Well, my dear fellow, I am ready to admit anything you tell me to, but what can I do if I know for a fact that at the root of all human virtue lies the completest egoism. And the more virtuous anything is, the more egoism there is in it. Love yourself, that’s the one rule I recognize” (3: 365).
By asserting a doctrine of absolute egoism against Ivan Petrovich’s “philanthropic” self-abnegation, Valkovsky thus objectifies and justifies, as a sinister philosophy of evil, the very same drives and impulses against which the “good” characters have been carrying on a moral struggle.
Dostoevsky is parodying Chernyshevsky’s “rational egoism,” and Valkovsky is Dostoevsky’s first artistic reaction to the radical doctrines of the 1860s. For Dostoevsky uses Valkovsky to follow out the logic of Chernyshevsky’s position to the end—without accepting the proviso that reason and self-interest would ultimately coincide, and that egoism would miraculously convert itself into beneficence through rational calculation. Dostoevsky remembered the irrational frenzies of frustrated egoism that he had witnessed in the prison camp, and he had read Choderlos de Laclos and the Marquis de Sade. Like them, he was persuaded that to base morality on egoism was to risk unleashing forces in the human personality over which Utilitarian reason had little control. Indeed, Dostoevsky’s allusions to these two writers indicates his awareness of an indebtedness to the libertine tradition of the French eighteenth-century novel, in which characters similar to Prince Valkovsky also dramatize, whether with approval or dismay, the possible consequences of putting into practice the logic of an egoism unrestrained by moral inhibitions.
Like his eighteenth-century prototypes, when Prince Valkovsky yields to the temptations of sensuality and the sadistic pleasures of desecration and domination, he finds it convenient to have a doctrine of egoistic self-interest at hand providing a philosophical rationale for his worst instincts. Since everyone possesses such instincts, even the “good” characters, who believe in a morality of love and self-sacrifice, can easily become prey to the passions of “egoism,” and Valkovsky illustrates what might happen if “egoism” were to be taken seriously as the prevailing norm of behavior. Valkovsky, as has long been accepted, is the prefiguration of such later characters as Svidrigailov and Stavrogin; he is also Dostoevsky’s first attempt, inspired by the radical ideology of the 1860s, to portray the futility of “reason” to control the entire gamut of possibilities contained in the human psyche.

Social factors and individual responsibility
Such words, we may surmise, indicate the complex ambiguity that Dostoevsky himself felt about the ideals of his radical past—the ideals he had just brought back to life again in the pages of The Insulted and Injured. There was no question that they had been “mistaken,” or at least lamentably shortsighted in their view of the human condition; but he still continued to believe that what they had rested upon—the values of compassion and love—were sacred. What now prevented such values from being realized, however, was no longer primarily the deformations of character caused by an oppressive and unjust social system and a crushing political tyranny. It was, rather, the hidden forces of egoism and pride slumbering in every human breast.

Foreshadowing future novels
Dostoevsky’s characters often bear a family resemblance in their psychology, and it is not too far-fetched to point out a connection between the ragged little waif Nellie in The Insulted and Injured and the beautiful Nastasya Filippovna in The Idiot. Both are consumed by the “egoism of suffering.” Both exhibit a fierce pride, a drive toward masochistic self-abasement, and an undying hatred of their persecutors and oppressors. Nellie finally overcomes her egoism at the cost of her life; so does Nastasya by offering herself as a victim to Rogozhin’s knife. What is only tearful in the early novel becomes tragic in the later one.
The same difference of level can be noted in the case of Alyosha Valkovsky, who turns out to be a first draft of Dostoevsky’s most touching effort to portray his moral ideal in the figure of Prince Myshkin.
The yawning gap between the impressions produced by the two characters illustrates how Dostoevsky can employ almost identical traits to obtain very different types of significance, for while the lineaments of Myshkin are faintly profiled in Alyosha, there is no trace in him as yet of Myshkin’s supreme saintliness.
The most striking attribute of Alyosha, and one that most clearly stamps him as Myshkin’s predecessor, is his capacity for living so totally in each moment of time, or in each experience and encounter, that he lacks any sense of continuity or consequence. It is thus impossible to hold him responsible for anything, or even to take offense at the chaos in other people’s lives that he unwittingly creates; he behaves completely like a child and is characterized as being one: “he was too simple for his age and had no notion of real life” (3: 202).
Alyosha is thus a pure naïf, existing outside the categories of good and evil and of social responsibility. He is genuinely unable to choose between Natasha and Katya, just as Myshkin will be unable to decide between Nastasya Filippovna and Aglaya Epanchin, and the two women also meet here to decide the future of the indecisive love object. But the conflict between love as passion and love as compassion, which is one day to tear Prince Myshkin apart, is totally absent in the case of Alyosha, who flits lightly from girl to girl and is in love with them all. Alyosha is a Myshkin, as it were, still lacking a religious aura and motivated solely by ordinary human drives and instincts—a Myshkin whose childlike purity is mixed with so much self-indulgence that Dostoevsky has trouble projecting him as favorably as his role in the plot requires.

On this biography
I really encourage everyone to buy and read this biography by Joseph Frank. You can get it on Amazon over here. Another redditer on this sub told me a while back that reading it will make me want to read all Dostoevsky's works again. Now that I have the book I have to agree. It is almost 900 pages and yet is a condensed work of a series of five books of similar lengths he wrote on Dostoevsky. So there's also that if you are a hardcore fan.
It is worth the time if you really like Dostoevsky like I do. I'm only one-third into the book and it is pretty good.
If the above sounds interesting and you'd like to read it together with us let me know in the comments.

submitted by Shigalyov to dostoevsky [link] [comments]


2020.07.18 19:57 Blinker18JJulce Men Video Real Por-n

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https://preview.redd.it/5eheilx1nnb51.jpg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50dd405dcf666290b66f22d0f7d4bfa975f7559e
submitted by Blinker18JJulce to Home_Made_Fun [link] [comments]


2020.05.16 20:56 anfal857 "But mental illness was never talked about before..." (Response)

I thought it was about time this post was due:

Back in my day, mental illness/depression/anxiety was never talked about!
I am sorry that mental illness wasn't a popular conversation starter back in your time, but to say that it was "never talked about" is quite a big claim. Never talked about by your family and friends? Maybe. Not as talked about as it is today? Sure. Never talked about in the whole United States? Not even close!
I mean obviously, someone must have said something for the government to go on such a big mental asylum-opening spree as it had throughout the 1700s-1800s, starting with the state psychiatric hospital in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, founded in 1753.
Now, although there's technically a chance you might be correct in saying that mental illnesses were never "talked" about during these times (there are no audio recordings from back then to use as counter-evidence), they were certainly written about (and by some high-profile writers too, like Charles Dickens, the author of Oliver Twist (1839) and A Christmas Carol (1843))
Now, wait a minute...Charles Dickens, a British author, who is from the UK, wrote a book discussing the occurrence of mental illness, specifically in the US (a country he otherwise had no involvement in), and was able to go into great detail about those issues involving mentally ill Americans at the time, despite the fact that not even those actually living in the US were knowledgeable of it enough to talk about it. So if others abroad were able to pay attention to the United States' mental healthcare problem while its own citizens were busy "never hearing of it", then whose fault is it for not listening?
But yeah, it's just one of those 'ya blink, and ya miss it'-type things, so here's a li'l historical recap of mental illness-related events in the US for all those moments you blinked:
1773: The Eastern State Hospital opens up in Williamsburg, VA
1792: The New York Psychiatric Hospital opens up in New York City, NY
1817: A 2nd Mental Asylum opens in Philadelphia, PA due to overcrowding
1824: The Eastern Lunatic Asylum opens up in Lexington, KY (Note: "Lunacy" is what depression, anxiety, bipolar, schizophrenia, and all other mental disorders were labeled back in the olden days, among other names like Hysteria, Insanity, Craziness, and Demonic Possession)
1874: Danvers State Hospital (the real-life inspiration for Arkham Asylum) opens up in Danvers, MA
1876: The Worcester State Hospital opens up in Worcester, MA
1890: All 44 states (UT, OK, NM, AZ, AK, and HI aren't states at this time) are mandated to build at least one public mental asylum within their jurisdiction, each having to hold a minimum of 500,000 mentally ill patients
1896: The Overbrook Asylum opens up in Cedar Grove, NJ
1830s-1840s: Over a hundred inmates at the Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia, PA (founded 1829) are revealed to have been wrongly declared "legally sane to stand trial" and are promptly transferred to mental asylums (or "Looney Bins").
1848: Dorothea Dix takes a stand against the treatment of the mentally ill in the US (particularly the nightmarish abuse they've been enduring in MA) and starts the first "real" mental health awareness campaign. Her hard work pays off, and eventually, in 1856, a psychiatric hospital in her name opens up in Raleigh, NC
1887: 23-year-old Nellie Bly gets herself admitted to the Blackwell Island Asylum in New York by pretending to go looney. She wants to document everything she experiences inside for her expose 10 Days in a Madhouse, which she plans on releasing to the public, exposing the corruption within the US Mental Healthcare System.
There are tons of other events, but yeah, it seems like we've dedicated a whole lot of time constructing buildings and writing books to something that was allegedly so "unheard" of. It's such a shame that the mentally ill and disabled have never really gotten their chance in the spotlight throughout history. At some points, you can see where a big revolution of their own is about form, but just as it rises up, it gets overshadowed by another civil rights movement for some other group. In the late 1890s and early 1900s, it was about Irish-Catholic immigrants. In the 1910s, it was about women. In the 1920s-1940s, it was about Chinese immigrants. In the 1950s-1960s, it was about African-Americans. Then in the 1970s-onward, it was about those of different sexual orientations. Each of these movements has an iconic figurehead attached to it that its members can look up to (Susan B. Anthony, Martin Luther King Jr., Harvey Milk), while mentally ill Americans don't really have much of a selection. I mean, there's Dorothea Dix and Nellie Bly, who both made important impacts on society, but they never really started a big protest or revolution that gained any traction. If I were forced to name a group that I feel has been greatly underrepresented throughout US history, I'd have to say the mentally ill and disabled.

"This was unheard of before, but now, everyone is suddenly mentally ill/depressed/anxious!"
It may seem like that, but you really need to take the bigger picture into account in order to fully understand.
Going by statistics from 2000-2020, 1 in 4 US citizens, on average, have some type of mental disorder (mood, anxiety, psychotic, dissociative, OCD, PTSD, personality, behavioral, emotional, learning, sleeping, eating, phobic, manic, paraphilic, any). That means out of 330,753,490 people in the US, 2,688,373 have a mental illness.
Do these stats mean that the number of mentally ill Americans was 0 before these 2,688,373 people suddenly came along? No. How do we know? Read the answer I wrote to the last statement. See, the trick is that they were always there; it's just that no one cared enough to take count.
If you're looking for data specific to only certain types of disorders (depression, anxiety, bipolar, schizophrenia, etc.), then, uh, good luck with that. See, as time progresses throughout history, more and more words get added to the dictionary, and, with the study of medicine being more physiology-based than neurologically-based in the past, specific clinical terms weren't assigned to different mental disorders. You just fell somewhere on the craziness scale, and whichever point you landed on determined which synonym of "craziness" you'd be diagnosed with (Hysteria, Insanity, Lunacy, Madness). Just because depressive or anxious symptoms weren't labeled as "Depression" or "Anxiety" back then doesn't make them any less real. After all, how could they be, when those words weren't even invented? Think about it like crime rates. When we hear the word "crime", we automatically assume the worst of the worst: murder, rape, theft. But when we look at historical crime rates, it seems like they get lower and lower as we go back through the past. Going by numbers alone, you might wonder how we abruptly went from a peaceful, crime-free society to a society full of criminals.
Well, the answer is, naturally, when you declare more things to be crimes, that means there's going to be more criminals (obviously). You might be quick to assume that older societies were more peaceful and less violent, but that's not how it works. In fact, there were probably tons of more murders and acts of brutality being committed back then than now, because they weren't considered crimes and would go unpunished. To illustrate, let's say there's a society of 100 people. Now, let's say that 5 of them are murderers, 10 are rapists, and 15 are thieves. If the society agrees that all 3 acts (murder, rape, and theft) should be considered crimes and receive punishment, then that means 30% of their population are criminals. Now, if they want the criminal to society ratio to be 0%, then they can simply declare murder, rape, and theft to be legal. True, no "criminals" exist by definition (after all, can't be a criminal if there are no crimes to commit), but does that mean the activities we consider to be "criminal" in modern-day didn't exist back then? Nope.
The same concept applies to mental illness. Just because we didn't have doctors to diagnose them doesn't mean that they just simply didn't exist. Just to be helpful, here's a chronological list of when mental disorders became recognized:
500-300 BC: A mood disorder appearing among Ancient Greeks is given the name Melancholia (Greek for "Black Bile"). Later, in South America, the same symptoms are called Lugubrious (Latin for "Mourning")
400 BC: Ancient Greek physician, Hippocrates, assigns the name "Mania" to a disorder causing extremely high moods and energy levels
1401-1500: The term "scrupulosity" is coined to refer to those who suffer from superstitious beliefs and repetitive behaviors during the European renaissance
1850s: The Greek term "Melancholia" and the Latin term "Lugubrious" are translated into the English language as "Depression"
1683: Scrupulosity has its name changed to Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) in England
1883: Emil Kräpelin publishes the first manual of psychological disorders in Germany
1902: Dr. George Still, an English physician, is the first to use the acronym ADHD (Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder) as a diagnosis. He describes the condition as an "abnormal defect of moral control in children"
1908: The term "Schizophrenia" is coined in Switzerland
1906: Dr. Alois Alzheimer studies the mysterious case of an elderly patient experiencing bouts of confusion and memory loss in Germany
1910: Alois Alzheimer finally gives names to the mysterious illnesses affecting his elderly patients: Dementia and Alzheimer's Disease
1918: Many young men who were drafted into WWI against their will come back displaying symptoms of "Shell Shock"
1926: The term Anxiété is coined in France, which then makes its way over to English-speaking countries as Anxiety
1942: The term "Autism" is coined at the John Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland. Even though the existence of intellectual disabilities predates long before the 20th century, this is the first recognition of them in the US
1944: Another variation of Autism is discovered by Hans Asperger in Austria, which he names Asperger's Syndrome, after himself
1960s: More physicians in the US start noticing the presence of ADHD-like symptoms in not only children but also adults. This provokes further research, which leads to the diagnosing of ADD as a separate disorder
1963-1966: Sharpshooter and marine, Charles Whitman, starts experiencing severe headaches and symptoms of Shell Shock, but he's told to "tough it out" like a marine. Being left untreated, his symptoms progressively get worse until things come to a head in 1966, when homicidal delusions come up. He turns to Dexedrine to numb his senses, but that, unfortunately, proves to be ineffective. In a paranoid and panic-stricken state, Whitman brutally murders his mother and ex-wife, both of whom he believes were conspiring against him. After, he gets his sniper rifle and some hunting equipment together, and he makes his way to the University of Austin, TX. There, He climbs up the tower and starts firing down on people indiscriminately. After claiming 17 lives, he takes his own. An autopsy reveals that Whitman's brain had a small tumor in its hypothalamic region, which explains the severe headaches he had been experiencing. However, what isn't explained is the paranoid delusions and impulses he had been exhibiting. Those were certainly not attributable to a small brain tumor. Around this time, Shell Shock is renamed PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) for updated psychological manuals
submitted by anfal857 to mentalillness [link] [comments]


2020.04.12 01:26 CaptainRoyD Bruce and Nellie-Modern Day Bonnie and Clyde OG Couple

Bruce and Nellie Ohr’s criminal roles expand with every new revelation in the ObamaGate/SpyGate scandals. They sadly are part of a growing list of ‘Dirty Couples’ acting as a modern day Bonnie and Clyde criminal teams.
Post Q# 2700 on 2/12/19:
Establish ‘financial checks/reviews’ of those in senior (critical) positions (audits) + direct family (close proximity).
It is now being said by The Hill’s John Solomon that Bruce Ohr [BO] may turn out to be the number one whistleblower. Ohr’s leaked testimony to date has implicated high level individuals connected to the past BHO administration.
Post Q# 2004 on 8/30/18:
The FARM requires select skill-sets.
Ex-FBI Peter Strzok admitted publicly that Bruce Ohr gave the FBI the original Christopher Steele’s Dossier. Additionally Steele ran his fake Trump-Russia Dossier through BHO’s State Department via Victoria Nuland/Jonathan Winer.
Post Q# 4153 on 5/8/20:
[FBI Floor 7] [UK assist] Steele - B_Ohr - N_Ohr - FusionGPS [shell 2]
Husband/Wife pairs that are involved with high treasonous crimes normally are very rare. For some reason BHO/HRC have convinced several married couples to risk everything for their Progressive Leftists NWO Marxist agenda.
Post Q# 436 on 12/22/18:
BRIT INTEL.
HRC CAMP PAY.
DNC PAY.
STEELE.
Bruce Ohr was the former Associate Deputy Attorney General (# 4 spot at DOJ) prior to several internal demotions. [BO] is a cooperative witness and has been giving countering testimony to those previously called to testify.
Post Q# 2159 on 9/11/18:
Panic in DC.
Bruce Ohr [in effort to save Nellie Ohr] testifying against Rosenstein, Yates, Lynch, and Comey?
Nellie Ohr was employed at Fusion GPS during the Spring through the Fall of 2016. Nellie coordinated the preparation and distribution of the infamous Christopher Steele Dossier for her employer Fusion GPS.
Post Q# 1939 on 8/27/18:
BO and Alexander Downer (FVEY) (EX1).
BO unlocks UK / F_intel [FVEY].
Bruce Ohr meet several times in the Fall 2016 with Glenn Simpson (Fusion co-founder) to discuss Chris Steele. Ohr acted without prior approval or knowledge of his superiors at the DOJ for these clandestine rendezvouses.
Post Q# 1988 on 8/29/18:
”Just learned BO was not interviewed by Huber”.
[BO] was the main conduit between the Justice Department and Fusion GPS. Orbis/UK employee Christopher Steele was contracted to do opposition research for Fusion in creation of the now infamous Trump-Russia Dossier.
Post Q# 1876 on 8/14/18:
HAM radio instructions if remote-5.
Nellie Ohr’s released Congressional testimony highlights a meeting on 7/30/16 at the Mayflower Hotel/DC. Nellie along with hubby Bruce meet with Chris Steele to exchange ‘Dossier’ intelligence.
Post Q# 1316 on 5/4/18:
Bruce Ohr, Associate Deputy Director Attorney General-Demoted 2x-cooperating witness [power removed].
[BO] previously headed the DOJ’s Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force. Bruce Ohr had been involved with both Operation Cassandra and Congressional IT aides the Awan’s.
Post Q# 3065 on 3/14/19:
NELLIE OHR = C_A?
Bruce Ohr would be demoted several times by the DOJ but was kept on at DOJ so as to continue ongoing testify. Bruce Ohr has had over a dozen sessions with IG Horowitz’s team and undoubtedly been chatting with SP John Durham. [BO] resigned on 10/14/20, which was a day before he was to be fired by AG Barr.
Post Q# 1435 on 5/22/18:
NELLIE OHR HAM RADIO.
Avoid NSA data college.
It failed.
Nellie Ohr’s worked at Fusion GPS and did more than just help compile the Dossier. It has been said Nellie is the co-author, as she helped in developing most of the Trump-Russia collusion material used to form this false narrative.
Post Q# 2004 on 8/30/18:
What is the significance of Nellie Ohr being fluent in Russian?
Nellie Ohr has a unique background which includes a Ph.D. in Russian history/she is fluent in Russian/a known Stalin apologist/former CIA analyst/and expert Ham radio operator. It has been discovered that Nellie may have started working for Fusion GPS up to one year earlier than has been previously stated.
Post Q# 4124 on 5/6/20:
Why do they always include their spouse, son, daughter, etc.?
Follow the money.
In Nellie Ohr’s released Congressional testimony, she claims to have used additional sources besides Steele to compile final Dossier. Sid Blumenthal and Cody Shearer worked with State Department Nuland/Winer officials, to insert their own two memos to be included with Steele’s compiled oppo research dossier.
Post Q# 2261 on 9/21/18:
FISA = START.
FISA BRINGS DOWN THE HOUSE.
WHEN DO BIRDS SING?
In 2010 the three paths between Bruce/Nellie and Glenn Simpson crossed. This event was a CIA Open Source Works program and a known ‘clown’ gathering workshop.
Post Q# 1928 on 8/20/18:
[Movie 1]
Showtime.
BO - CS and BO - NO ands NO - BO.
decode: BO=Bruce Ohr CS = Christopher Steele NO=Nellie Ohr
By actively attending CIA sponsored seminars, the ‘Clown’ influence is real hard to shake off in later years. This method of ‘soft’ recruitment has been employed many times by various intelligence agencies.
Post Q# 4853 on 10/14/20:
Wife: CIA
Husband: DOJ
Sen. Chuck Grassley sent out a 12-page questionnaire to several top BHO Alumni. Many of these very specific questions involve Fusion GPS, Perkins Coie, CrowdStrike and the Chris Steele Trump Dossier. Upcoming Senate hearings will cross reference prior testimony.
Post Q# 1286 on 4/27/18:
Fusion GPS.
The Brits-raw intel/dossie5 eyes.
The answers to Senator Grassley’s tough questions may just ignite the fuse for grand finale. Truth and sunlight will be the best disinfectant for the corrupt DC Swamp.
Post Q# 2633 on 12/20/18:
”McCain associate shared unverified Steele dossier with BuzzFeed, court filing says.”
It is looking like Nellie Ohr will get ultimately get credit as a co-author of Steele’s Dossier. Lovely Molly has earned the title of Dossier #3 and hubby Bruce has testified to those facts.
Post Q# 4072 on 5/2/20:
Treason doesn’t pay well in the end.
Just some of the DIRTY COUPLES uncovered with direct connections to ObamaGate/SpyGate:
• Andy/Jill McCabe
• Bruce/Nellie Ohr
• Peter Strzok/Melissa Hodgman
• Glenn Simpson /Mary Jacoby
• Cass Sunstein/Samatha Power
•. Anita Dunn/Robert Bauer
• Shailagh Murray/Neil King
• Joe/Melissa Pientka
• Huma Abedin/Anthony Weiner
• BC/HRC (ringleaders)
Post Q# 3483 on 7/24/19:
Why is Bruce Ohr still @ Justice?
Nellie Ohr _C_A.
Fluent in Russian?
Epoch Times-Former CIA Contractor Provided DOJ Husband w/Russia Research
Gateway Pundit-Steele’s Backchannel and Coup Plotter Bruce Ohr out at DOJ
Gateway Pundit-ObamaGate Started in 2015
FOX News-DOJ Bruce Ohr meets with Senate Judiciary
Epoch Times-Will 4 Mysterious ‘SpyGate’ Figures be Emerging soon?
ZeroHedge-Graham looking to Declassify FBI Interviews w/Steele’s Key Source
Red State-UK Court Docs: Steele’s ultimate Client was the DNC
Liberty Headlines-Document showing FBI’s Phony attempt to Vouch for Steele Dossier
Heavy-5 Facts: Bruce and Nellie Ohr
American Thinker-Both Ohrs in Troubled Water
New Yorker-Pete and Lisa/Andrew and Jill/Bruce and Nellie: Trump’s Troubles w/Couples
Gateway Pundit-BHO’s DOJ fed Christopher Steele Garbage included in Dossier
Washington Examiner-Hundreds of Emails show Nellie Ohr Researched Trump-Russia
Federalist-The Bruce Ohr Archives
The Hill-Family Secrets Bruce Ohr told Rod Rosenstein
Spectator-Nellie Ohr: Woman in the Middle
Movie-The Plot against the President (10/23/20)
RELATED POST: Nellie Ohr
WWG1WGA ⚓️
CaptainRoyD (Reddit)
submitted by CaptainRoyD to u/CaptainRoyD [link] [comments]


2020.02.06 19:01 blessed_Momma5 Part 2 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV

SALLY ANN ADAMS DANE (now, Wood)
Welcome back. In Part 2, (if you haven't read Part 1, I've linked it below and encourage you to read it), I'll be explaining about the Murder of Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt Charleston, NV, the crime scene, former wife's statements and an eventual arrest and indictment for open murder charges, of person the family, friends and myself absolutely believe is responsible for Matthew's murder. I will be revealing her name as she was and remains the only suspect in Matthew Lee Dane's murder. Per Detective Hefner with LVPD, as of 30 Jan 2020. (Even though a news article mis reported that she was acquitted of the charges or found innocent) AFAIK, a grand jury's responsibility and scope of authority is not to acquit or convict a person , rather decide If there is, in their collective majority opinion , enough evidence of probable cause to support criminal charges.
Matthew and his wife had 2 vehicles, until labor day weekend 1986. Matthew had just sold his truck back to his father. It’s the reason they were home in Missouri the weekend before the killing on Labor Day. They drove the truck back to Missouri and sold it back to his father. Then Mr. Dane Sr. flew the couple back to Las Vegas on 2 Sep 1986.
Matthew wanted to be with his family to celebrate Labor Day and to wish his parents a happy 23rd wedding anniversary, that was upcoming on 7 Sep 1986. Matthew assumed his wife would visit her family as they were local as well, however she never left the presence of the Dane family.
So at the time of Matthew's murder they only had one car. It was an older light blue Monte Carlo, alleged to be a 1979.
Two of Matthew's Wife's Statement
LVPD Homicide Report:
Sally Ann "Adams" Dane (SAAD) told detectives that she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986 and attended church at the Trinity Temple Center for 11:00 service. Upon leaving church they proceeded home to change clothes. Afterwards they went to Long John Silvers on Charleston Blvd. Then proceeded to Mt. Charleston Ski Area arriving at approximately 1:30-2:00pm.
SAAD stated they stayed an hour, an hour and a half. Departing Mt. Charleston Ski Area 3:30 would put them back in Las Vegas at 4:45-5:00pm
SAAD stated they arrived at the 7-11 at the intersection of Nellis Blvd and Charleston Blvd at 4:00pm. SAAD stated Matthew entered the 7-11 to pay for his gas.
Upon returning to their vehicle from the 7-11 SAAD stated Matthew was going target shooting with someone he met in the store. SAAD further stated, Matthew retrieved his weapons from the trunk of their vehicle placing them into the vehicle of an another person, unknown to her.
SAAD told detectives Matthew departed the 7-11 with an unknown person but she couldn't recall the color or make of the vehicle Matthew entered. Sally continued that she did not see the other individual Matthew was going target shooting with. Stating it was "common practice" for Matthew to often go out shooting. SAAD reported she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AF OSI) Report
SAAD stated she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986, departed Las Vegas at 6:45am to the Mt. Charleston area. They had breakfast at 8:00am. They departed 11:45. Arrived 7-11 at Charlotte and Nellis Blvd at 1:00pm. SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm.
In LVPD report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
In AF OSI report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm
Crime Scene
LVPD received a phone call at 1400 (2pm) stating two civilian hikers had found a deceased body of a white male on Champion Road, in the Mt View area.
Matthew Lee Dane's body was found on a mountain road, Champion Rd, by two hikers on Monday, 8 Sep 1986. Matthew had been shot 6 times. IMHO, Matthew was ambushed by his killer. He was shot 3 times in the chest (heart area) on the back and side. He was initially, tentatively identified by AF2, Active Duty Identification Card. A later comparison of Matthew's dental records from, Military records confirmed his identity
7 days later on, Sunday, 14 Sep 1986, 2 weapons were discovered by hikers, 4.1 miles from the crime scene. Checks with NCIC system determine the weapons belong to Matthew.
On 3 Oct 1986, LVPD criminal laboratory conducted an analysis between the weapons discovered belonging to Matthew and the projectiles received from the M.E. conclude a postive match and determine Matthew's .22 Caliber (Rifle) to be the murder weapon.
On 13 Oct 1986, laboratory analysis (fingerprint comparisons) had been completed. The LVPD detectives stated two sets of fingerprints had been identified on the .22 Caliber (Rifle) belonging to Matthew (murder weapon) One belong to Matthew and the other to his wife, Sally Ann "Adams" Dane.
On 8 January 1987, Sally Ann Adams Dane was arrested on open murder charges for the murder of her husband Matthew Lee Dane. She was given a 100,000 bond, posted shortly afterwards. Continuances would delay the trial. From January 1987 - 29 Sep 1988. When the 2d grand jury failed to return an indictment.
Additional notes of interest:
SAAD immediately filed claim on Matthew's life insurance policy. UNBELIEVABLY The death benefit was paid out on 22 Oct 1986, over $50,000. 6 weeks after a man is murdered, it's Unsolved, she's the ONLY suspect and the Department of the Air Force paid her his life insurance policy??
SAAD stated repeatedly that typically Matthew went to the desert for target shooting. Why would she call Mt Charleston rangers on the morning of 9/8 to see if any accidents had been reported?
Unfortunately for SAAD, detectives acquired phone records from the Dane apartment in Las Vegas. On 7 Sep 1986, a phone call placed at 1:05pm to the Dane family home in Viburnum, MO, duration of 14 minutes. Matthew's family would later collaborate they spoke with Matthew at that time. This simple phone call destroys SAAD timeline or statement of events. They couldn't have been at Mt. Charleston at 11:45 am or 2:30pm due to this simple 14 minute phone call and the fact they indeed attended church. Several of Matthew's family verified Matthew called them and verified he definitely attended church at 11:00am at Trinity Temple Church.
Additionally, on 8 Sep 1986, a phone call was placed to Mt. Charleston Forest Park Ranger emergency line at 6:46am by a white female. Ranger advised woman to call back on business line, which she did at exactly 6:47am.
According to SAAD, Matthew Lee Dane was murdered on 7 Sep 1986, Matthew's parents 23rd wedding anniversary.
SAAD order Matthew's grave Headstone with Date of death: 7 Sep 1986. How would she know when he died? The M.E. couldn't even determine.
Air Force Grave Marker records date of death as 8 Sep 1986
SAAD Arrest
http://imgur.com/gallery/mxWbrE2
SAAD First Continuance
http://imgur.com/gallery/7g8cExZ
SAAD Second Continuance
http://imgur.com/a/uP59xWS
Matthew Lee Dane (SAAD) Grave Marker
Matthew Lee Dane Air Force Grave Marker
http://imgur.com/gallery/sFHegpU
Part 1 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV
https://www.reddit.com/UnsolvedMurders/comments/exwqcz/part_1_murder_mystery_who_murdered_matthew_lee/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=sharepa
submitted by blessed_Momma5 to LasVegas [link] [comments]


2020.02.06 19:00 blessed_Momma5 Part 2 - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV

SALLY ANN ADAMS DANE (now, Wood)
Welcome back. In Part 2, (if you haven't read Part 1, I've linked it below and encourage you to read it), I'll be explaining about the Murder of Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt Charleston, NV, the crime scene, former wife's statements and an eventual arrest and indictment for open murder charges, of person the family, friends and myself absolutely believe is responsible for Matthew's murder. I will be revealing her name as she was and remains the only suspect in Matthew Lee Dane's murder. Per Detective Hefner with LVPD, as of 30 Jan 2020. (Even though a news article mis reported that she was acquitted of the charges or found innocent) AFAIK, a grand jury's responsibility and scope of authority is not to acquit or convict a person , rather decide If there is, in their collective majority opinion , enough evidence of probable cause to support criminal charges.
Matthew and his wife had 2 vehicles, until labor day weekend 1986. Matthew had just sold his truck back to his father. It’s the reason they were home in Missouri the weekend before the killing on Labor Day. They drove the truck back to Missouri and sold it back to his father. Then Mr. Dane Sr. flew the couple back to Las Vegas on 2 Sep 1986.
Matthew wanted to be with his family to celebrate Labor Day and to wish his parents a happy 23rd wedding anniversary, that was upcoming on 7 Sep 1986. Matthew assumed his wife would visit her family as they were local as well, however she never left the presence of the Dane family.
So at the time of Matthew's murder they only had one car. It was an older light blue Monte Carlo, alleged to be a 1979.
Two of Matthew's Wife's Statement
LVPD Homicide Report:
Sally Ann "Adams" Dane (SAAD) told detectives that she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986 and attended church at the Trinity Temple Center for 11:00 service. Upon leaving church they proceeded home to change clothes. Afterwards they went to Long John Silvers on Charleston Blvd. Then proceeded to Mt. Charleston Ski Area arriving at approximately 1:30-2:00pm.
SAAD stated they stayed an hour, an hour and a half. Departing Mt. Charleston Ski Area 3:30 would put them back in Las Vegas at 4:45-5:00pm
SAAD stated they arrived at the 7-11 at the intersection of Nellis Blvd and Charleston Blvd at 4:00pm. SAAD stated Matthew entered the 7-11 to pay for his gas.
Upon returning to their vehicle from the 7-11 SAAD stated Matthew was going target shooting with someone he met in the store. SAAD further stated, Matthew retrieved his weapons from the trunk of their vehicle placing them into the vehicle of an another person, unknown to her.
SAAD told detectives Matthew departed the 7-11 with an unknown person but she couldn't recall the color or make of the vehicle Matthew entered. Sally continued that she did not see the other individual Matthew was going target shooting with. Stating it was "common practice" for Matthew to often go out shooting. SAAD reported she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AF OSI) Report
SAAD stated she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986, departed Las Vegas at 6:45am to the Mt. Charleston area. They had breakfast at 8:00am. They departed 11:45. Arrived 7-11 at Charlotte and Nellis Blvd at 1:00pm. SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm.
In LVPD report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
In AF OSI report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm
Crime Scene
LVPD received a phone call at 1400 (2pm) stating two civilian hikers had found a deceased body of a white male on Champion Road, in the Mt View area.
Matthew Lee Dane's body was found on a mountain road, Champion Rd, by two hikers on Monday, 8 Sep 1986. Matthew had been shot 6 times. IMHO, Matthew was ambushed by his killer. He was shot 3 times in the chest (heart area) on the back and side. He was initially, tentatively identified by AF2, Active Duty Identification Card. A later comparison of Matthew's dental records from, Military records confirmed his identity
7 days later on, Sunday, 14 Sep 1986, 2 weapons were discovered by hikers, 4.1 miles from the crime scene. Checks with NCIC system determine the weapons belong to Matthew.
On 3 Oct 1986, LVPD criminal laboratory conducted an analysis between the weapons discovered belonging to Matthew and the projectiles received from the M.E. conclude a postive match and determine Matthew's .22 Caliber (Rifle) to be the murder weapon.
On 13 Oct 1986, laboratory analysis (fingerprint comparisons) had been completed. The LVPD detectives stated two sets of fingerprints had been identified on the .22 Caliber (Rifle) belonging to Matthew (murder weapon) One belong to Matthew and the other to his wife, Sally Ann "Adams" Dane.
On 8 January 1987, Sally Ann Adams Dane was arrested on open murder charges for the murder of her husband Matthew Lee Dane. She was given a 100,000 bond, posted shortly afterwards. Continuances would delay the trial. From January 1987 29 Sep 1988. When the 2d grand jury failed to return an indictment.
Additional notes of interest:
SAAD immediately filed claim on Matthew's life insurance policy. UNBELIEVABLY The death benefit was paid out on 22 Oct 1986, over $50,000. 6 weeks after a man is murdered, it's Unsolved, she's the ONLY suspect and the Department of the Air Force paid her his life insurance policy??
SAAD stated repeatedly that typically Matthew went to the desert for target shooting. Why would she call Mt Charleston rangers on the morning of 9/8 to see if any accidents had been reported?
Unfortunately for SAAD, detectives acquired phone records from the Dane apartment in Las Vegas. On 7 Sep 1986, a phone call placed at 1:05pm to the Dane family home in Viburnum, MO, duration of 14 minutes. Matthew's family would later collaborate they spoke with Matthew at that time. This simple phone call destroys SAAD timeline or statement of events. They couldn't have been at Mt. Charleston at 11:45 am or 2:30pm due to this simple 14 minute phone call. Several of Matthew's family verified Matthew called them and verified he definitely attended church at 11:00am at Trinity Temple Church.
Additionally, on 8 Sep 1986, a phone call was placed to Mt. Charleston Forest Park Ranger emergency line at 6:46am by a white female. Ranger advised woman to call back on business line, which she did at exactly 6:47am.
According to SAAD, Matthew Lee Dane was murdered on 7 Sep 1986, Matthew's parents 23rd wedding anniversary.
SAAD order Matthew's grave Headstone with Date of death: 7 Sep 1986. How would she know when he died? The M.E. couldn't even determine.
Air Force Grave Marker records date of death as 8 Sep 1986
SAAD Arrest
http://imgur.com/gallery/mxWbrE2
SAAD First Continuance
http://imgur.com/gallery/7g8cExZ
SAAD Second Continuance
http://imgur.com/a/uP59xWS
Matthew Lee Dane (SAAD) Grave Marker
Matthew Lee Dane Air Force Grave Marker
http://imgur.com/gallery/sFHegpU
Part 1 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV
https://www.reddit.com/UnsolvedMurders/comments/exwqcz/part_1_murder_mystery_who_murdered_matthew_lee/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=sharepa
submitted by blessed_Momma5 to Nevada [link] [comments]


2020.02.06 18:36 blessed_Momma5 Part 2 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV (Missouri Native)

SALLY ANN ADAMS DANE (now, Wood)
Welcome back. In Part 2, (if you haven't read Part 1, I've linked it below and encourage you to read it), I'll be explaining about the Murder of Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt Charleston, NV, the crime scene, former wife's statements and an eventual arrest and indictment for open murder charges, of person the family, friends and myself absolutely believe is responsible for Matthew's murder. I will be revealing her name as she was and remains the only suspect in Matthew Lee Dane's murder. Per Detective Hefner with LVPD, as of 30 Jan 2020. (Even though a news article mis reported that she was acquitted of the charges or found innocent) AFAIK, a grand jury's responsibility and scope of authority is not to acquit or convict a person , rather decide If there is, in their collective majority opinion , enough evidence of probable cause to support criminal charges.
Matthew and his wife had 2 vehicles, until labor day weekend 1986. Matthew had just sold his truck back to his father. It’s the reason they were home in Missouri the weekend before the killing on Labor Day. They drove the truck back to Missouri and sold it back to his father. Then Mr. Dane Sr. flew the couple back to Las Vegas on 2 Sep 1986.
Matthew wanted to be with his family to celebrate Labor Day and to wish his parents a happy 23rd wedding anniversary, that was upcoming on 7 Sep 1986. Matthew assumed his wife would visit her family as they were local as well, however she never left the presence of the Dane family.
So at the time of Matthew's murder they only had one car. It was an older light blue Monte Carlo, alleged to be a 1979.
Two of Matthew's Wife's Statement
LVPD Homicide Report:
Sally Ann "Adams" Dane (SAAD) told detectives that she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986 and attended church at the Trinity Temple Center for 11:00 service. Upon leaving church they proceeded home to change clothes. Afterwards they went to Long John Silvers on Charleston Blvd. Then proceeded to Mt. Charleston Ski Area arriving at approximately 1:30-2:00pm.
SAAD stated they stayed an hour, an hour and a half. Departing Mt. Charleston Ski Area 3:30 would put them back in Las Vegas at 4:45-5:00pm
SAAD stated they arrived at the 7-11 at the intersection of Nellis Blvd and Charleston Blvd at 4:00pm. SAAD stated Matthew entered the 7-11 to pay for his gas.
Upon returning to their vehicle from the 7-11 SAAD stated Matthew was going target shooting with someone he met in the store. SAAD further stated, Matthew retrieved his weapons from the trunk of their vehicle placing them into the vehicle of an another person, unknown to her.
SAAD told detectives Matthew departed the 7-11 with an unknown person but she couldn't recall the color or make of the vehicle Matthew entered. Sally continued that she did not see the other individual Matthew was going target shooting with. Stating it was "common practice" for Matthew to often go out shooting. SAAD reported she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AF OSI) Report
SAAD stated she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986, departed Las Vegas at 6:45am to the Mt. Charleston area. They had breakfast at 8:00am. They departed 11:45. Arrived 7-11 at Charlotte and Nellis Blvd at 1:00pm. SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm.
In LVPD report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
In AF OSI report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm
Crime Scene
LVPD received a phone call at 1400 (2pm) stating two civilian hikers had found a deceased body of a white male on Champion Road, in the Mt View area.
Matthew Lee Dane's body was found on a mountain road, Champion Rd, by two hikers on Monday, 8 Sep 1986. Matthew had been shot 6 times. IMHO, Matthew was ambushed by his killer. He was shot 3 times in the chest (heart area) on the back and side. He was initially, tentatively identified by AF2, Active Duty Identification Card. A later comparison of Matthew's dental records from, Military records confirmed his identity
7 days later on, Sunday, 14 Sep 1986, 2 weapons were discovered by hikers, 4.1 miles from the crime scene. Checks with NCIC system determine the weapons belong to Matthew.
On 3 Oct 1986, LVPD criminal laboratory conducted an analysis between the weapons discovered belonging to Matthew and the projectiles received from the M.E. conclude a postive match and determine Matthew's .22 Caliber (Rifle) to be the murder weapon.
On 13 Oct 1986, laboratory analysis (fingerprint comparisons) had been completed. The LVPD detectives stated two sets of fingerprints had been identified on the .22 Caliber (Rifle) belonging to Matthew (murder weapon) One belong to Matthew and the other to his wife, Sally Ann "Adams" Dane.
On 8 January 1987, Sally Ann Adams Dane was arrested on open murder charges for the murder of her husband Matthew Lee Dane. She was given a 100,000 bond, posted shortly afterwards. Continuances would delay the trial. From January 1987 29 Sep 1988. When the 2d grand jury failed to return an indictment.
Additional notes of interest:
SAAD immediately filed claim on Matthew's life insurance policy. UNBELIEVABLY The death benefit was paid out on 22 Oct 1986, over $50,000. 6 weeks after a man is murdered, it's Unsolved, she's the ONLY suspect and the Department of the Air Force paid her his life insurance policy??
SAAD stated repeatedly that typically Matthew went to the desert for target shooting. Why would she call Mt Charleston rangers on the morning of 9/8 to see if any accidents had been reported?
Unfortunately for SAAD, detectives acquired phone records from the Dane apartment in Las Vegas. On 7 Sep 1986, a phone call placed at 1:05pm to the Dane family home in Viburnum, MO, duration of 14 minutes. Matthew's family would later collaborate they spoke with Matthew at that time. This simple phone call destroys SAAD timeline or statement of events. They couldn't have been at Mt. Charleston at 11:45 am or 2:30pm due to this simple 14 minute phone call. Several of Matthew's family verified Matthew called them and verified he definitely attended church at 11:00am at Trinity Temple Church.
Additionally, on 8 Sep 1986, a phone call was placed to Mt. Charleston Forest Park Ranger emergency line at 6:46am by a white female. Ranger advised woman to call back on business line, which she did at exactly 6:47am.
According to SAAD, Matthew Lee Dane was murdered on 7 Sep 1986, Matthew's parents 23rd wedding anniversary.
SAAD order Matthew's grave Headstone with Date of death: 7 Sep 1986. How would she know when he died? The M.E. couldn't even determine.
Air Force Grave Marker records date of death as 8 Sep 1986
SAAD Arrest
http://imgur.com/gallery/mxWbrE2
SAAD First Continuance
http://imgur.com/gallery/7g8cExZ
SAAD Second Continuance
http://imgur.com/a/uP59xWS
Matthew Lee Dane (SAAD) Grave Marker
Matthew Lee Dane Air Force Grave Marker
http://imgur.com/gallery/sFHegpU
Part 1 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV
https://www.reddit.com/UnsolvedMurders/comments/exwqcz/part_1_murder_mystery_who_murdered_matthew_lee/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=sharepa
submitted by blessed_Momma5 to missouri [link] [comments]


2020.02.06 18:19 blessed_Momma5 Part 2 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV

SALLY ANN ADAMS DANE (now, Wood)
Welcome back. In Part 2, (if you haven't read Part 1, I've linked it below and encourage you to read it), I'll be explaining about the Murder of Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt Charleston, NV, the crime scene, former wife's statements and an eventual arrest and indictment for open murder charges, of person the family, friends and myself absolutely believe is responsible for Matthew's murder. I will be revealing her name as she was and remains the only suspect in Matthew Lee Dane's murder. Per Detective Hefner with LVPD, as of 30 Jan 2020. (Even though a news article mis reported that she was acquitted of the charges or found innocent) AFAIK, a grand jury's responsibility and scope of authority is not to acquit or convict a person , rather decide If there is, in their collective majority opinion , enough evidence of probable cause to support criminal charges.
Matthew and his wife had 2 vehicles, until labor day weekend 1986. Matthew had just sold his truck back to his father. It’s the reason they were home in Missouri the weekend before the killing on Labor Day. They drove the truck back to Missouri and sold it back to his father. Then Mr. Dane Sr. flew the couple back to Las Vegas on 2 Sep 1986.
Matthew wanted to be with his family to celebrate Labor Day and to wish his parents a happy 23rd wedding anniversary, that was upcoming on 7 Sep 1986. Matthew assumed his wife would visit her family as they were local as well, however she never left the presence of the Dane family.
So at the time of Matthew's murder they only had one car. It was an older light blue Monte Carlo, alleged to be a 1979.
Two of Matthew's Wife's Statement
LVPD Homicide Report:
Sally Ann "Adams" Dane (SAAD) told detectives that she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986 and attended church at the Trinity Temple Center for 11:00 service. Upon leaving church they proceeded home to change clothes. Afterwards they went to Long John Silvers on Charleston Blvd. Then proceeded to Mt. Charleston Ski Area arriving at approximately 1:30-2:00pm.
SAAD stated they stayed an hour, an hour and a half. Departing Mt. Charleston Ski Area 3:30 would put them back in Las Vegas at 4:45-5:00pm
SAAD stated they arrived at the 7-11 at the intersection of Nellis Blvd and Charleston Blvd at 4:00pm. SAAD stated Matthew entered the 7-11 to pay for his gas.
Upon returning to their vehicle from the 7-11 SAAD stated Matthew was going target shooting with someone he met in the store. SAAD further stated, Matthew retrieved his weapons from the trunk of their vehicle placing them into the vehicle of an another person, unknown to her.
SAAD told detectives Matthew departed the 7-11 with an unknown person but she couldn't recall the color or make of the vehicle Matthew entered. Sally continued that she did not see the other individual Matthew was going target shooting with. Stating it was "common practice" for Matthew to often go out shooting. SAAD reported she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AF OSI) Report
SAAD stated she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986, departed Las Vegas at 6:45am to the Mt. Charleston area. They had breakfast at 8:00am. They departed 11:45. Arrived 7-11 at Charlotte and Nellis Blvd at 1:00pm. SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm.
In LVPD report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
In AF OSI report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm
Crime Scene
LVPD received a phone call at 1400 (2pm) stating two civilian hikers had found a deceased body of a white male on Champion Road, in the Mt View area.
Matthew Lee Dane's body was found on a mountain road, Champion Rd, by two hikers on Monday, 8 Sep 1986. Matthew had been shot 6 times. IMHO, Matthew was ambushed by his killer. He was shot 3 times in the chest (heart area) on the back and side. He was initially, tentatively identified by AF2, Active Duty Identification Card. A later comparison of Matthew's dental records from, Military records confirmed his identity
7 days later on, Sunday, 14 Sep 1986, 2 weapons were discovered by hikers, 4.1 miles from the crime scene. Checks with NCIC system determine the weapons belong to Matthew.
On 3 Oct 1986, LVPD criminal laboratory conducted an analysis between the weapons discovered belonging to Matthew and the projectiles received from the M.E. conclude a postive match and determine Matthew's .22 Caliber (Rifle) to be the murder weapon.
On 13 Oct 1986, laboratory analysis (fingerprint comparisons) had been completed. The LVPD detectives stated two sets of fingerprints had been identified on the .22 Caliber (Rifle) belonging to Matthew (murder weapon) One belong to Matthew and the other to his wife, Sally Ann "Adams" Dane.
On 8 January 1987, Sally Ann Adams Dane was arrested on open murder charges for the murder of her husband Matthew Lee Dane. She was given a 100,000 bond, posted shortly afterwards. Continuances would delay the trial. From January 1987 29 Sep 1988. When the 2d grand jury failed to return an indictment.
Additional notes of interest:
SAAD immediately filed claim on Matthew's life insurance policy. UNBELIEVABLY The death benefit was paid out on 22 Oct 1986, over $50,000. 6 weeks after a man is murdered, it's Unsolved, she's the ONLY suspect and the Department of the Air Force paid her his life insurance policy??
SAAD stated repeatedly that typically Matthew went to the desert for target shooting. Why would she call Mt Charleston rangers on the morning of 9/8 to see if any accidents had been reported?
Unfortunately for SAAD, detectives acquired phone records from the Dane apartment in Las Vegas. On 7 Sep 1986, a phone call placed at 1:05pm to the Dane family home in Viburnum, MO, duration of 14 minutes. Matthew's family would later collaborate they spoke with Matthew at that time. This simple phone call destroys SAAD timeline or statement of events. They couldn't have been at Mt. Charleston at 11:45 am or 2:30pm due to this simple 14 minute phone call. Several of Matthew's family verified Matthew called them and verified he definitely attended church at 11:00am at Trinity Temple Church.
Additionally, on 8 Sep 1986, a phone call was placed to Mt. Charleston Forest Park Ranger emergency line at 6:46am by a white female. Ranger advised woman to call back on business line, which she did at exactly 6:47am.
According to SAAD, Matthew Lee Dane was murdered on 7 Sep 1986, Matthew's parents 23rd wedding anniversary.
SAAD order Matthew's grave Headstone with Date of death: 7 Sep 1986. How would she know when he died? The M.E. couldn't even determine.
Air Force Grave Marker records date of death as 8 Sep 1986
SAAD Arrest
http://imgur.com/gallery/mxWbrE2
SAAD First Continuance
http://imgur.com/gallery/7g8cExZ
SAAD Second Continuance
http://imgur.com/a/uP59xWS
Matthew Lee Dane (SAAD) Grave Marker
Matthew Lee Dane Air Force Grave Marker
http://imgur.com/gallery/sFHegpU
Part 1 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV
https://www.reddit.com/UnsolvedMurders/comments/exwqcz/part_1_murder_mystery_who_murdered_matthew_lee/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=sharepa
submitted by blessed_Momma5 to coldcases [link] [comments]


2020.02.06 18:15 blessed_Momma5 Part 2 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthe Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV

SALLY ANN ADAMS DANE (now, Wood)
Welcome back. In Part 2, (If you haven't read Part 1 ive linked it below and I encourage you to read it) I'll be explaining about the Murder of Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt Charleston, NV, the crime scene, former wife's statements and an eventual arrest and indictment for open murder charges, of person the family, friends and myself absolutely believe is responsible for Matthew's murder. I will be revealing her name as she was and remains the only suspect in Matthew Lee Dane's murder. Per Detective Hefner with LVPD, as of 30 Jan 2020. (Even though a news article mis reported that she was acquitted of the charges or found innocent) AFAIK, a grand jury's responsibility and scope of authority is not to acquit or convict a person , rather decide If there is, in their collective majority opinion , enough evidence of probable cause to support criminal charges.
Matthew and his wife had 2 vehicles, until labor day weekend 1986. Matthew had just sold his truck back to his father. It’s the reason they were home in Missouri the weekend before the killing on Labor Day. They drove the truck back to Missouri and sold it back to his father. Then Mr. Dane Sr. flew the couple back to Las Vegas on 2 Sep 1986.
Matthew wanted to be with his family to celebrate Labor Day and to wish his parents a happy 23rd wedding anniversary, that was upcoming on 7 Sep 1986. Matthew assumed his wife would visit her family as they were local as well, however she never left the presence of the Dane family.
So at the time of Matthew's murder they only had one car. It was an older light blue Monte Carlo, alleged to be a 1979.
Two of Matthew's Wife's Statement
LVPD Homicide Report:
Sally Ann "Adams" Dane (SAAD) told detectives that she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986 and attended church at the Trinity Temple Center for 11:00 service. Upon leaving church they proceeded home to change clothes. Afterwards they went to Long John Silvers on Charleston Blvd. Then proceeded to Mt. Charleston Ski Area arriving at approximately 1:30-2:00pm.
SAAD stated they stayed an hour, an hour and a half. Departing Mt. Charleston Ski Area 3:30 would put them back in Las Vegas at 4:45-5:00pm
SAAD stated they arrived at the 7-11 at the intersection of Nellis Blvd and Charleston Blvd at 4:00pm. SAAD stated Matthew entered the 7-11 to pay for his gas.
Upon returning to their vehicle from the 7-11 SAAD stated Matthew was going target shooting with someone he met in the store. SAAD further stated, Matthew retrieved his weapons from the trunk of their vehicle placing them into the vehicle of an another person, unknown to her.
SAAD told detectives Matthew departed the 7-11 with an unknown person but she couldn't recall the color or make of the vehicle Matthew entered. Sally continued that she did not see the other individual Matthew was going target shooting with. Stating it was "common practice" for Matthew to often go out shooting. SAAD reported she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AF OSI) Report
SAAD stated she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986, departed Las Vegas at 6:45am to the Mt. Charleston area. They had breakfast at 8:00am. They departed 11:45. Arrived 7-11 at Charlotte and Nellis Blvd at 1:00pm. SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm.
In LVPD report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
In AF OSI report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm
Crime Scene
LVPD received a phone call at 1400 (2pm) stating two civilian hikers had found a deceased body of a white male on Champion Road, in the Mt View area.
Matthew Lee Dane's body was found on a mountain road, Champion Rd, by two hikers on Monday, 8 Sep 1986. Matthew had been shot 6 times. IMHO, Matthew was ambushed by his killer. He was shot 3 times in the chest (heart area) on the back and side. He was initially, tentatively identified by AF2, Active Duty Identification Card. A later comparison of Matthew's dental records from, Military records confirmed his identity
7 days later on, Sunday, 14 Sep 1986, 2 weapons were discovered by hikers, 4.1 miles from the crime scene. Checks with NCIC system determine the weapons belong to Matthew.
On 3 Oct 1986, LVPD criminal laboratory conducted an analysis between the weapons discovered belonging to Matthew and the projectiles received from the M.E. conclude a postive match and determine Matthew's .22 Caliber (Rifle) to be the murder weapon.
On 13 Oct 1986, laboratory analysis (fingerprint comparisons) had been completed. The LVPD detectives stated two sets of fingerprints had been identified on the .22 Caliber (Rifle) belonging to Matthew (murder weapon) One belong to Matthew and the other to his wife, Sally Ann "Adams" Dane.
On 8 January 1987, Sally Ann Adams Dane was arrested on open murder charges for the murder of her husband Matthew Lee Dane. She was given a 100,000 bond, posted shortly afterwards. Continuances would delay the trial. From January 1987 29 Sep 1988. When the 2d grand jury failed to return an indictment.
Additional notes of interest:
SAAD immediately filed claim on Matthew's life insurance policy. UNBELIEVABLY The death benefit was paid out on 22 Oct 1986, over $50,000. 6 weeks after a man is murdered, it's Unsolved, she's the ONLY suspect and the Department of the Air Force paid her his life insurance policy??
SAAD stated repeatedly that typically Matthew went to the desert for target shooting. Why would she call Mt Charleston rangers on the morning of 9/8 to see if any accidents had been reported?
Unfortunately for SAAD, detectives acquired phone records from the Dane apartment in Las Vegas. On 7 Sep 1986, a phone call placed at 1:05pm to the Dane family home in Viburnum, MO, duration of 14 minutes. Matthew's family would later collaborate they spoke with Matthew at that time. This simple phone call destroys SAAD timeline or statement of events. They couldn't have been at Mt. Charleston at 11:45 am or 2:30pm due to this simple 14 minute phone call. Several of Matthew's family verified Matthew called them and verified he definitely attended church at 11:00am at Trinity Temple Church.
Additionally, on 8 Sep 1986, a phone call was placed to Mt. Charleston Forest Park Ranger emergency line at 6:46am by a white female. Ranger advised woman to call back on business line, which she did at exactly 6:47am.
According to SAAD, Matthew Lee Dane was murdered on 7 Sep 1986, Matthew's parents 23rd wedding anniversary.
SAAD order Matthew's grave Headstone with Date of death: 7 Sep 1986. How would she know when he died? The M.E. couldn't even determine.
Air Force Grave Marker records date of death as 8 Sep 1986
SAAD Arrest
http://imgur.com/gallery/mxWbrE2
SAAD First Continuance
http://imgur.com/gallery/7g8cExZ
SAAD Second Continuance
http://imgur.com/a/uP59xWS
Matthew Lee Dane (SAAD) Grave Marker
Matthew Lee Dane Air Force Grave Marker
http://imgur.com/gallery/sFHegpU
Part 1 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV
https://www.reddit.com/UnsolvedMurders/comments/exwqcz/part_1_murder_mystery_who_murdered_matthew_lee/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=sharepa
submitted by blessed_Momma5 to unsolvedCrimes [link] [comments]


2020.02.06 07:40 blessed_Momma5 Part 2 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV

SALLY ANN ADAMS DANE (now, Wood)
Welcome back. In Part 2, (If you haven't read Part 1 I've linked it below and encourage you to read it) I'll be explaining about the Murder of Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt Charleston, NV, the crime scene, former wife's statements and an eventual arrest and indictment for open murder charges, of person the family, friends and myself absolutely believe is responsible for Matthew's murder. I will be revealing her name as she was and remains the only suspect in Matthew Lee Dane's murder. Per Detective Hefner with LVPD, as of 30 Jan 2020. (Even though a news article mis reported that she was acquitted of the charges or found innocent) AFAIK, a grand jury's responsibility and scope of authority is not to acquit or convict a person , rather decide If there is, in their collective majority opinion , enough evidence of probable cause to support criminal charges.
Matthew and his wife had 2 vehicles, until labor day weekend 1986. Matthew had just sold his truck back to his father. It’s the reason they were home in Missouri the weekend before the killing on Labor Day. They drove the truck back to Missouri and sold it back to his father. Then Mr. Dane Sr. flew the couple back to Las Vegas on 2 Sep 1986.
Matthew wanted to be with his family to celebrate Labor Day and to wish his parents a happy 23rd wedding anniversary, that was upcoming on 7 Sep 1986. Matthew assumed his wife would visit her family as they were local as well, however she never left the presence of the Dane family.
So at the time of Matthew's murder they only had one car. It was an older light blue Monte Carlo, alleged to be a 1979.
Two of Matthew's Wife's Statement
LVPD Homicide Report:
Sally Ann "Adams" Dane (SAAD) told detectives that she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986 and attended church at the Trinity Temple Center for 11:00 service. Upon leaving church they proceeded home to change clothes. Afterwards they went to Long John Silvers on Charleston Blvd. Then proceeded to Mt. Charleston Ski Area arriving at approximately 1:30-2:00pm.
SAAD stated they stayed an hour, an hour and a half. Departing Mt. Charleston Ski Area 3:30 would put them back in Las Vegas at 4:45-5:00pm
SAAD stated they arrived at the 7-11 at the intersection of Nellis Blvd and Charleston Blvd at 4:00pm. SAAD stated Matthew entered the 7-11 to pay for his gas.
Upon returning to their vehicle from the 7-11 SAAD stated Matthew was going target shooting with someone he met in the store. SAAD further stated, Matthew retrieved his weapons from the trunk of their vehicle placing them into the vehicle of an another person, unknown to her.
SAAD told detectives Matthew departed the 7-11 with an unknown person but she couldn't recall the color or make of the vehicle Matthew entered. Sally continued that she did not see the other individual Matthew was going target shooting with. Stating it was "common practice" for Matthew to often go out shooting. SAAD reported she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AF OSI) Report
SAAD stated she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986, departed Las Vegas at 6:45am to the Mt. Charleston area. They had breakfast at 8:00am. They departed 11:45. Arrived 7-11 at Charlotte and Nellis Blvd at 1:00pm. SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm.
In LVPD report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
In AF OSI report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm
Crime Scene
LVPD received a phone call at 1400 (2pm) stating two civilian hikers had found a deceased body of a white male on Champion Road, in the Mt View area.
Matthew Lee Dane's body was found on a mountain road, Champion Rd, by two hikers on Monday, 8 Sep 1986. Matthew had been shot 6 times. IMHO, Matthew was ambushed by his killer. He was shot 3 times in the chest (heart area) on the back and side. He was initially, tentatively identified by AF2, Active Duty Identification Card. A later comparison of Matthew's dental records from, Military records confirmed his identity
7 days later on, Sunday, 14 Sep 1986, 2 weapons were discovered by hikers, 4.1 miles from the crime scene. Checks with NCIC system determine the weapons belong to Matthew.
On 3 Oct 1986, LVPD criminal laboratory conducted an analysis between the weapons discovered belonging to Matthew and the projectiles received from the M.E. conclude a postive match and determine Matthew's .22 Caliber (Rifle) to be the murder weapon.
On 13 Oct 1986, laboratory analysis (fingerprint comparisons) had been completed. The LVPD detectives stated two sets of fingerprints had been identified on the .22 Caliber (Rifle) belonging to Matthew (murder weapon) One belong to Matthew and the other to his wife, Sally Ann "Adams" Dane.
On 8 January 1987, Sally Ann Adams Dane was arrested on open murder charges for the murder of her husband Matthew Lee Dane. She was given a 100,000 bond, posted shortly afterwards. Continuances would delay the trial. From January 1987 29 Sep 1988. When the 2d grand jury failed to return an indictment.
Additional notes of interest:
SAAD immediately filed claim on Matthew's life insurance policy. UNBELIEVABLY The death benefit was paid out on 22 Oct 1986, over $50,000. 6 weeks after a man is murdered, it's Unsolved, she's the ONLY suspect and the Department of the Air Force paid her his life insurance policy??
SAAD stated repeatedly that typically Matthew went to the desert for target shooting. Why would she call Mt Charleston rangers on the morning of 9/8 to see if any accidents had been reported?
Unfortunately for SAAD, detectives acquired phone records from the Dane apartment in Las Vegas. On 7 Sep 1986, a phone call placed at 1:05pm to the Dane family home in Viburnum, MO, duration of 14 minutes. Matthew's family would later collaborate they spoke with Matthew at that time. This simple phone call destroys SAAD timeline or statement of events. They couldn't have been at Mt. Charleston at 11:45 am or 2:30pm due to this simple 14 minute phone call. Several of Matthew's family verified Matthew called them and verified he definitely attended church at 11:00am at Trinity Temple Church.
Additionally, on 8 Sep 1986, a phone call was placed to Mt. Charleston Forest Park Ranger emergency line at 6:46am by a white female. Ranger advised woman to call back on business line, which she did at exactly 6:47am.
According to SAAD, Matthew Lee Dane was murdered on 7 Sep 1986, Matthew's parents 23rd wedding anniversary.
SAAD order Matthew's grave Headstone with Date of death: 7 Sep 1986. How would she know when he died? The M.E. couldn't even determine.
Air Force Grave Marker records date of death as 8 Sep 1986
SAAD Arrest
http://imgur.com/gallery/mxWbrE2
SAAD First Continuance
http://imgur.com/gallery/7g8cExZ
SAAD Second Continuance
http://imgur.com/a/uP59xWS
Matthew Lee Dane (SAAD) Grave Marker
Matthew Lee Dane Air Force Grave Marker
http://imgur.com/gallery/sFHegpU
Part 1 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV
https://www.reddit.com/UnsolvedMurders/comments/exwqcz/part_1_murder_mystery_who_murdered_matthew_lee/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=sharepa
submitted by blessed_Momma5 to UnsolvedMurders [link] [comments]


2020.02.05 03:56 blessed_Momma5 Murder ' Part 2 - Murder Mystery - Who killed Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt Charleston, NV

SALLY ANN ADAMS DANE (now, Wood)
Welcome back. In Part 2, (If you haven't read Part 1 I've linked it below and encourage you to read it) I'll be explaining about the Murder of Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt Charleston, NV, the crime scene, former wife's statements and an eventual arrest and indictment for open murder charges, of person the family, friends and myself absolutely believe is responsible for Matthew's murder. I will be revealing her name as she was and remains the only suspect in Matthew Lee Dane's murder. Per Detective Hefner with LVPD, as of 30 Jan 2020. (Even though a news article mis reported that she was acquitted of the charges or found innocent) AFAIK, a grand jury's responsibility and scope of authority is not to acquit or convict a person , rather decide If there is, in their collective majority opinion , enough evidence of probable cause to support criminal charges.
Matthew and his wife had 2 vehicles, until labor day weekend 1986. Matthew had just sold his truck back to his father. It’s the reason they were home in Missouri the weekend before the killing on Labor Day. They drove the truck back to Missouri and sold it back to his father. Then Mr. Dane Sr. flew the couple back to Las Vegas on 2 Sep 1986.
Matthew wanted to be with his family to celebrate Labor Day and to wish his parents a happy 23rd wedding anniversary, that was upcoming on 7 Sep 1986. Matthew assumed his wife would visit her family as they were local as well, however she never left the presence of the Dane family.
So at the time of Matthew's murder they only had one car. It was an older light blue Monte Carlo, alleged to be a 1979.
Two of Matthew's Wife's Statement
LVPD Homicide Report:
Sally Ann "Adams" Dane (SAAD) told detectives that she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986 and attended church at the Trinity Temple Center for 11:00 service. Upon leaving church they proceeded home to change clothes. Afterwards they went to Long John Silvers on Charleston Blvd. Then proceeded to Mt. Charleston Ski Area arriving at approximately 1:30-2:00pm.
SAAD stated they stayed an hour, an hour and a half. Departing Mt. Charleston Ski Area 3:30 would put them back in Las Vegas at 4:45-5:00pm
SAAD stated they arrived at the 7-11 at the intersection of Nellis Blvd and Charleston Blvd at 4:00pm. SAAD stated Matthew entered the 7-11 to pay for his gas.
Upon returning to their vehicle from the 7-11 SAAD stated Matthew was going target shooting with someone he met in the store. SAAD further stated, Matthew retrieved his weapons from the trunk of their vehicle placing them into the vehicle of an another person, unknown to her.
SAAD told detectives Matthew departed the 7-11 with an unknown person but she couldn't recall the color or make of the vehicle Matthew entered. Sally continued that she did not see the other individual Matthew was going target shooting with. Stating it was "common practice" for Matthew to often go out shooting. SAAD reported she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AF OSI) Report
SAAD stated she and Matthew woke up on Sunday, 7 Sep 1986, departed Las Vegas at 6:45am to the Mt. Charleston area. They had breakfast at 8:00am. They departed 11:45. Arrived 7-11 at Charlotte and Nellis Blvd at 1:00pm. SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm.
In LVPD report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 4:00pm
In AF OSI report: SAAD stated she last saw her husband at 1:00pm
Crime Scene
LVPD received a phone call at 1400 (2pm) stating two civilian hikers had found a deceased body of a white male on Champion Road, in the Mt View area.
Matthew Lee Dane's body was found on a mountain road, Champion Rd, by two hikers on Monday, 8 Sep 1986. Matthew had been shot 6 times. IMHO, Matthew was ambushed by his killer. He was shot 3 times in the chest (heart area) on the back and side. He was initially, tentatively identified by AF2, Active Duty Identification Card. A later comparison of Matthew's dental records from, Military records confirmed his identity
7 days later on, Sunday, 14 Sep 1986, 2 weapons were discovered by hikers, 4.1 miles from the crime scene. Checks with NCIC system determine the weapons belong to Matthew.
On 3 Oct 1986, LVPD criminal laboratory conducted an analysis between the weapons discovered belonging to Matthew and the projectiles received from the M.E. conclude a postive match and determine Matthew's .22 Caliber (Rifle) to be the murder weapon.
On 13 Oct 1986, laboratory analysis (fingerprint comparisons) had been completed. The LVPD detectives stated two sets of fingerprints had been identified on the .22 Caliber (Rifle) belonging to Matthew (murder weapon) One belong to Matthew and the other to his wife, Sally Ann "Adams" Dane.
On 8 January 1987, Sally Ann Adams Dane was arrested on open murder charges for the murder of her husband Matthew Lee Dane. She was given a 100,000 bond, posted shortly afterwards. Continuances would delay the trial. From January 1987 - 29 Sep 1988. When the 2d grand jury failed to return an indictment.
Additional notes of interest:
SAAD immediately filed claim on Matthew's life insurance policy. UNBELIEVABLY The death benefit was paid out on 22 Oct 1986, over $50,000. 6 weeks after a man is murdered, it's Unsolved, she's the ONLY suspect and the Department of the Air Force paid her his life insurance policy??
SAAD stated repeatedly that typically Matthew went to the desert for target shooting. Why would she call Mt Charleston rangers on the morning of 9/8 to see if any accidents had been reported?
Unfortunately for SAAD, detectives acquired phone records from the Dane apartment in Las Vegas. On 7 Sep 1986, a phone call placed at 1:05pm to the Dane family home in Viburnum, MO, duration of 14 minutes. Matthew's family would later collaborate they spoke with Matthew at that time. This simple phone call destroys SAAD timeline or statement of events. They couldn't have been at Mt. Charleston at 11:45 am due to this simple 14 minute phone call. Several of Matthew's family verified Matthew called them and verified he definitely attended church at 11:00am at Trinity Temple Church.
Additionally, on 8 Sep 1986, a phone call was placed to Mt. Charleston Forest Park Ranger emergency line at 6:46am by a white female. Ranger advised woman to call back on business line, which she did at exactly 6:47am.
According to SAAD, Matthew Lee Dane was murdered on 7 Sep 1986, Matthew's parents 23rd wedding anniversary.
SAAD order Matthew's grave Headstone with Date of death: 7 Sep 1986. How would she know when he died? The M.E. couldn't even determine.
Air Force Grave Marker records date of death as 8 Sep 1986
SAAD Arrest
http://imgur.com/gallery/mxWbrE2
SAAD First Continuance
http://imgur.com/gallery/7g8cExZ
SAAD Second Continuance
http://imgur.com/a/uP59xWS
Matthew Lee Dane (SAAD) Grave Marker
Matthew Lee Dane Air Force Grave Marker
http://imgur.com/gallery/sFHegpU
Part 1 - Murder Mystery - Who Murdered Matthew Lee Dane - Sep 1986 - Mt. Charleston, NV
https://www.reddit.com/UnsolvedMurders/comments/exwqcz/part_1_murder_mystery_who_murdered_matthew_lee/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
submitted by blessed_Momma5 to UnresolvedMysteries [link] [comments]


2019.11.05 06:15 JFK_Megaposts Discussing JFK's torso wounds, Part 3: Pre-autopsy witnesses to the back wound

Skip to Part 4: Missing autopsy photographs showing the interior body/lungs
Back to Part 2: Clothing evidence
Back to Contents
Pre-autopsy witnesses to the back wound
The staff at Parkland Memorial Hospital did not report seeing the wound in Kennedy's back which was spotted during the autopsy at Bethesda Naval Hospital.
As explained by the Warren Report, "Since the Dallas doctors directed all their efforts to controlling the massive bleeding caused by the head wound, and to reconstructing an airway to his lungs, the President remained on his back throughout his medical treatment at Parkland" (WC, p. 55, Chapter 2: The Assassination, Treatment of President Kennedy). But even if the body was not turned over during the attempted resuscitation, Nurses Diana Bowron and Margaret Henchliffe described washing the body and wrapping it in sheets before it was placed in it's casket (WC Vol. 21, p. 203, Bowron's hospital report; WC Vol. 6, p. 134, Bowron's WC testimony, 5/24/1964 [text]); WC Vol. 6, p. 139, Henchliffe's WC testimony, 3/21/1964 [text]). Reports show at least three other witnesses may have seen the body being handled at this time - Nurse Patricia Hutton, Nurse Doris Nelson, and orderly David Sanders (WC Vol. 21, p. 150, CE 392, Medical reports from doctors at Parkland Hospital, Dallas, Tex., concerning treatment of President Kennedy at that hospital on November 22, 1963 [text]; WC Vol. 6, p. 143, Nelson's WC testimony, 3/20/1964 [text]).
When Parkland's Dr. Marion Jenkins was later interviewed by researcher John Lattimer, he claimed to remember feeling a wound in the back with his finger while lifting up the body (Lattimer, Kennedy and Lincoln: Medical and Ballistic Comparisons of Their Assassinations, 1980, p. 153). Jenkins wrote, in a 2/9/1979 letter to Lattimer, "While using my right hand on the breathing bag to respire for the patient, I used my left hand rather instinctively as anesthesiologists do to feel for a temporal pulse, to feel for a carotid pulse, and to position the head and stabilize it better while the tracheostomy was being done. With an exploring finger I also found the wound of entrance on the back. I exercised no thought at all about entrance and exit for the head wound. In retrospect I think I automatically accepted the fact that if a bullet came from the back to traverse his neck, another bullet came from the back to go through the skull". Jenkins did not mention this in his hospital report (WC Vol. 17, p. 14 [text]) or his testimony to the Warren Commission on 3/25/1964 (WC Vol. 6, p. 45 [text]). When interviewed on 3/4/1981 by journalist Ben Bradlee, Jenkins said:
A. [...] I knew he had a hole, a bullet hole in the back of his neck.
Q. You did?
A. Because I had found that. But, but I hadn't, you know, you ask me about looking for the head, and I'd have to answer correctly that I didn't really look at the head. But, in feeling it, you want to be a patient here? To get a complete picture of this, you need to have the patient [...] down that I'm telling you about.
Q. Are you asking me to lie down? Do you think I'll gain something from it?
A. Well, I think so. Mr. Bradlee didn't want to lie down, but I'll tell you about this, why some of the reasons people were confused about it. OK. In order to pull his neck back, to get better to do the tracheostomy, this was a low wound in his neck in front. Well, I had to do that, I had to stabilize his head for that. So in putting my hand back there, I put my finger in a bullet wound.
A. So you were one of the few people here who was aware that there was a wound back there. That was something you told Lattimer only recently, isn't it.
A. I don't, no, I put it in my reports.
Q. You did, initially? That you felt a bullet wound back there?
A. I dictated a report and the FBI or somebody picked up.
Q. That's not the same report that was published by the Warren Commission?
A. I don't know, I haven't read it.
Q. Because we did read that as it was published there, and there is no reference to it, that I recall.
When Nurse Bowron was interviewed by researcher Harrison Livingstone, she claimed to remember seeing a back wound while washing the body (Livingstone, Killing The Truth: Deceit and Deception in the JFK Case, 1993, Chapter 6: Diana Bowron; Interviewed by Livingstone 1/8/1993, 3/15/1993, 5/2/1993, Corresponded 4/25/1993 and 5/11/1993). However, Bowron did not mention a wound in the back when testifying to the Warren Commission on 3/24/1964, and when asked "Did you notice any other wound on the President's body?", she replied "No, sir" (WC Vol. 6, p. 134 [text]).
The lack of any other back wound sighting from Parkland has lead to some speculation that there originally was no back wound, and that all evidence of a back wound from the autopsy and clothing was somehow faked. Dr. Malcolm Perry, who performed the tracheotomy, told the Warren Commission that lead autopsy pathologist Dr. James Humes asked him over the phone "if we had made any wounds in the back. I told him that I had not examined the back nor had I knowledge of any wounds of the back" (WC Vol. 6, p. 7, 3/25/1964 testimony [text]). This would be a strange question to ask if the back wound was really an obvious bullet entrance.
In 1965, the autopsy's assisting forensic pathologist Dr. Pierre Finck addressed a report to his superior General Joseph Blumberg. One passage includes the out-of-place phrase "black fouling": "...In my opinion, the oval wound in the right posterior superior aspect of the chest of Kennedy was an ENTRY. The edges were fairly regular and there was black fouling of the edges" (ARRB MD 28). According to scientific literature on gunshot wounds, "fouling" refers to the residue of burned gunpowder and soot spread from the discharge of a firearm at very CLOSE RANGE (JCLC, 1948; AJCP, 1953; CSLR, 1964; AJCP, 1969). Officially, Finck's reference to "black fouling of the edges" can only be interpreted as a mistake.
There is one interesting witness in regards to the hole in the back of Kennedy's coat. Glen Bennett was the Secret Service Agent seated in the right rear of the car following behind the Presidential Limousine. Bennett claimed that he literally saw a bullet hole punch through the back of Kennedy's coat at the time of the shooting.
From Bennett's handwritten notes, dated 5:30 PM 11/22/1963:
The President's auto moved down a slight grade and the crowd was very sparse. At this point I heard a noise that immediately reminded me of a firecracker. I immediately, upon hearing the supposed firecracker, looked at the Boss's car. At this exact time I saw a shot that hit the Boss about 4 inches down from the right shoulder; a second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the Boss's head.
(WC Vol. 24, p. 541)
From a 11/23/1964 formal statement by Bennett:
About thirty minutes after leaving Love Field, about 12:25 P.M., the motorcade entered an intersection and then proceded down a grade. At this point, the well-wishers numbered but a few; the motorcade continued down this grade en route to the Trade Mart. At this point, I heard what sounded like a firecracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical area/ and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another firecracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder. A second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the President’s head.
(WC Vol. 18, p.760)
The Warren Report explained the significance of this allegation:
Substantial weight may be given Bennett's observations. Although his formal statement was dated November 23, 1963, his notes indicate that he recorded what he saw and heard at 5:30 p.m., November 22, 1963, on the airplane en route back to Washington, prior to the autopsy, when it was not yet known that the President had been hit in the back.338 It is possible, of course, that Bennett did not observe the hole in the President's back, which might have been there immediately after the first noise.
(WC, p. 111, Chapter 3: The Shots from the Texas School Book Depository, The Shot that Missed, The First Shot)
On 1/30/1978, Bennett was interviewed by the House Select Committee on Assassinations. As reported, "He remembers hearing what he hoped was a firecracker. He then heard another noise and saw what appeared to be a nick in the back of President Kennedy's coat below the shoulder. He thought the President had been hit in the back. Bennett stated that he does not recall any agents reacting before the third shot" (HSCA 180-10082-10452).
There are some serious problems with Bennett's story. The pictures taken in Dealey Plaza show that he was about 50 feet away from the Presidential Limousine when the shooting started. As researcher David Lifton asked, "Could a person see a bullet strike dark clothing at about fifty feet?". If Bennett was not telling the truth, this could possibly reveal an attempt to manufacture witness evidence (Lifton, Best Evidence: Disguise and Deception in the Assassination of John F. Kennedy, 1980, Part III. A Search For New Evidence, Chapter 11. The Tracheotomy Incision: Dallas vs. Bethesda). Even lone-gunman author David Von Pein said in a 2018 online discussion "That type of vision is reserved for a guy named Superman. Anyway, do you think Bennett had a tape measure with him when he estimated where the bullet entered the President's back?".
Two photographs taken in Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting show Bennett's head turned sharply to the right, not turned towards the direction of Kennedy (PatSpeer.com, A New Perspective on the Kennedy Assassination by Pat Speer, Chapter 5b: Primary Pieces, Isolating Bennett). First, there is Willis photo #5, synchronous with frame 202 of the Zapruder Film (Richard E. Sprague, 10/15/1967; Don Olson and Ralph F. Turner, October 1971; HSCA Vol. 6, p. 121). Second, there is Altgens photo #6, synchronous with z255 (WC, p. 255; WC Vol. 5, p. 138; HSCA Vol. 6, p. 318).
https://i.imgur.com/6lRULzv.jpg - Willis photo #5, with President Kennedy and Agent Bennett circled. Also notice how Kennedy's back is enveloped in dark shadows, making it even more doubtful that Bennett saw what he claimed.
https://i.imgur.com/v4KWioX.jpg - Altgens photo #6. Kennedy's hands are raised towards his neck, while Bennett's head is turned as it is in the Willis photo.
The Zapruder Film shows Kennedy starting to raise his arms by the z220's. This body language is officially explained by one bullet entering the back and exiting the throat. If Bennett's head remained turned between the time of the Willis and Altgens photographs, then it is doubtful that he could've seen the bullet hole punch through the back of Kennedy's coat. The Zapruder Film reportedly runs at 18.3 frames per second (WC, p. 97; WC Vol. 5, p. 135; WC Vol. 5, p. 138), so there was about a 3-second span between the Willis and Altgens photos.
On the other hand, if Bennett's statements were true and honest, they still bring the official story into question. Anybody proposing a lone gunman must explain what happened to the first shot fired: either it missed, or it successfully entered Kennedy's back (Warren Report, Chapter 3: The Shots from the Texas School Book Depository, Number of Shots). Bennett's statements could only be reconciled with the official version by proposing the first shot missed. This limits the possibilities for a lone gunman scenario to be argued. There is another possibility to consider: what if Bennett saw the back shot AFTER Kennedy raised his hands towards his neck? If the back wound was created after the throat wound, this would nullify the official story.
Then there are the questionable statements from Roy Kellerman, the Secret Service Agent seated in the front passenger side of the Presidential Limousine. Kellerman claimed to have heard President Kennedy say something after the first loud gunshot. While Kellerman was waiting in the morgue at Bethesda Naval Hospital during the autopsy, he had a conversation with two attending FBI Agents, James Sibert and Francis X. O'Neill. Sibert and O'Neill relayed Kellerman's story in a report:
He advised he heard a shot and immediately turned around, looking at Governor Connally, who was seated directly in back of him, to the President. He observed the President slum forward and heard him say, "Get me to a hospital." Mr. Kellerman then heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "Oh, no!", as the President leaned toward her. He immediately advised the driver to take the President to the nearest hospital [...]
(WC D 7, p. 3)
On 11/27/1963, Sibert and O'Neill interviewed Kellerman again. As reported:
KELLERMAN said he heard a noise like a firecracker.
At this point, KELLERMAN advised he had been in almost daily contact for the past three years, with the President, and said he could pick his voice out from any group of people.
Upon hearing a noise like firecracker, he distinctly and positively heard the President say "My God, I’ve been hit". KELLERMAN advised he immediately turned his head to the left rear and almost instantaneously heard two additional shots.
Upon turning his head to the left, he observed President Kennedy with his left hand in back of him appearing to be reaching to a point on his right shoulder, the President fell on Mrs. Kennedy’s lap. She stated "my God, what are they doing to you?" Governor Connally never said a word. Through the corner of his eye, he noticed that Governor Connally appeared to be falling back face up in the lap of his wife. KELLERMAN stated he immediately turned around and advised Mr. Greer, "Get going, we’ve been hit."
(WC D 7, p. 7)
Did Kellerman hear "Get me to a hospital" or "My God, I've been hit"? Either way, it would have been impossible for President Kennedy to speak if a bullet had just passed through his trachea. According to the official story, Kellerman must be wrong.
From Kellerman's own statement, dated 11/29/1963:
[...] We were still traveling at the normal rate of speed of from 12 to 15 miles per hour when I heard a noise, similar to a firecracker, exploding in the area to the rear of the car, about 12:30 pm.
Immediately I heard what I firmly believe was the President's voice, "My God, I'm hit!" I turned around to find out what happened when two additional shots rang out, and the President slumped into Mrs. Kennedy's lap and Governor Connally fell to Mrs. Connally's lap. I heard Mrs. Kennedy shout, "What are they doing to you?"
I yelled at William Greer (the driver) to "Step on it, we're hit!" and grabbed the mike from the car radio, called to SA Lawson in the police lead car that we were hit and to get us to a hospital.
(WC Vol. 18 724 [text)
From Kellerman's 3/9/1964 testimony to the Warren Commission:
Mr. KELLERMAN. As we turned off Houston onto Elm and made the short little dip to the left going down grade, as I said, we were away from buildings, and were there was a sign on the side of the road which I don't recall what it was or what it said, but we no more than passed that and you are out in the open, and there is a report like a firecracker, pop. And I turned my head to the right because whatever this noise was I was sure that it came from the right and perhaps into the rear, and as I turned my head to the right to view whatever it was or see whatever it was, I heard a voice from the back seat and I firmly believe it was the President's, "My God, I am hit," and I turned around and he has got his hands up here like this.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating right hand up toward his neck?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right, sir. In fact, both hands were up in that direction.
Senator COOPER. Which side of his neck?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Beg pardon?
Senator COOPER. Which side of his neck?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Both hands were up, sir; this one is like this here and here we are with the hands--
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the left hand is up above the head.
Mr. KELLERMAN. In the collar section.
Mr. SPECTER. As you are positioning yourself in the witness chair, your right hand is up with the finger at the ear level as if clutching from the right of the head; would that be an accurate description of the position you pictured there?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes. Good. There was enough for me to verify that the man was hit. So, in the same motion I come right back and grabbed the speaker and said to the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit," and grabbed the mike and I said, "Lawson, this is Kellerman,"--this is Lawson, who is in the front car. "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately." Now, in the seconds that I talked just now, a flurry of shells come into the car. I then looked back and this time Mr. Hill, who was riding on the left front bumper of our followup car, was on the back trunk of that car; the President was sideways down into the back seat.
[...]
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Congressman, I have driven that car many times, and I never cease to be amazed even to this day with the weight of the automobile plus the power that is under the hood; we just literally jumped out of the God-damn road.
Representative FORD. As soon as this noise was heard, or as soon as you transmitted this message to Lawson?
Mr. KELLERMAN. As soon as I transmitted to the driver first as I went to Lawson. I just leaned sideways to, him and said, "Let's get out of here. We are hit."
Representative FORD. That comment was made to Greer; not to Lawson?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; that is right.
Representative FORD. And the subsequent message was to Lawson?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Correct. That is right.
Mr. SPECTER. With relationship to that first noise that you have described, when did you hear the voice?
Mr. KELLERMAN. His voice?
Mr. SPECTER. We will start with his voice.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Ok. From the noise of which I was in the process of turning to determine where it was or what it was, it carried on right then. Why I am so positive, gentlemen, that it was his voice there is only one man in that back seat that was from Boston, and the accents carried very clearly.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, had you become familiar with the President's voice prior to that day?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes; very much so.
Mr. SPECTER. And what was the basis for your becoming familiar with his voice prior to that day?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I had been with him for 3 years.
Mr. SPECTER. And had you talked with him on a very frequent basis during the course of that association?
Mr. KELLERMAN. He was a very free man to talk to; yes. He knew most all the men, most everybody who worked in the White House as well as everywhere, and he would call you.
Mr. SPECTER. And from your experience would you say that you could recognize the voice?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Very much, sir; I would.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, I think you may have answered this, but I want to pin-point just when you heard that statement which you have attributed to President Kennedy in relationship to the sound which you described as a firecracker.
Mr. KELLERMAN. This noise which I attribute as a firecracker, when this occurred and I am in the process of determining where it comes because I am sure it came off my right rear somewhere; the voice broke in right then.
Mr. SPECTER. At about the same time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is correct, sir. That is right.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, did President Kennedy say anything beside, "My God, I am hit."
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is the last words he said, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mrs. Kennedy say anything at that specific time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, there was an awful lot of confusion in that back seat. She did a lot of talking which I can't recall all the phrases.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, pinpoint--
Mr. KELLERMAN. But after the flurry of shots, I recall her saying, "What are they doing to you?" Now again, of course, my comparison of the voice of her speech--certainly, I have heard it many times, and in the car there was conversation she was carrying on through shock, I am sure.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, going back to the precise time that you heard the President say, "My God, I am hit," do you recollect whether she said anything at that time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Whether or not you can re-create what she said?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Not that I can recall right then sir. This statement, or whatever she said, happened after all the shooting was over.
Mr. SPECTER. All right. Now, you have described hearing a noise which sounded like a firecracker and you have described turning to your right and described hearing the President's voice and, again, what was your next motion, if any, or movement, if any?
Mr. KELLERMAN. After I was sure that his statement was right that he was hit, turned from the back I come right down--
Mr. SPECTER. You just indicated that you had turned to the left. Had you turned to the left after hearing his voice?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes; certainly.
Mr. SPECTER. And what did you see? You have described what you saw in terms of position of his hands.
Mr. KELLERMAN. That was it.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do next?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is when I completely turned to my right and grabbed for the mike in the same motion, sideways telling the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit."
[...]
Mr. SPECTER. When was it that Mrs. Kennedy made the statement which you have described, "My God, what are they doing?"
Mr. KELLERMAN. This occurred after the flurry of shots.
[...]
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, there is a report from the Federal Bureau of Investigation designated "Bureau File No. 105"--I believe there is an "S", although it is somewhat illegible on my copy--"S2555, report of Special Agent Robert P. Gemberling," dated December 10, 1963, which refers to an interview of you by Special Agent Francis X. O'Neill, Jr., and James W. Sibert, in which the following is set forth: "He"--and this obviously refers to you--"advised that he heard a shot and immediately turned around looking past Governor Connally who was seated directly in back of him, to the President. He observed the President slumped forward and heard him say 'get me to a hospital.' Mr. Kellerman then heard Mrs. Kennedy say, 'Oh, no, as the President leaned toward her." That is the end of the quotation. My question is: Did you hear him; did you hear President Kennedy say, "Get me to a hospital"?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you hear Mrs. Kennedy say, "Oh, no"?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have any knowledge or explanation as to why you would have been so quoted in the report of the FBI?
Mr. KELLERMAN. When these two gentlemen talked to me, I don't know where they got those quotes, because the only two things that I told them, they were interested in what I heard from the people in the back seat, and one said "my God, I have been hit," which was President Kennedy, and Mrs. Kennedy said, "What are they doing to you?"
Mr. SPECTER. You were interviewed, however, by Mr. O'Neill and Mr. Sibert on November 22, 1963?
Mr. KELLERMAN. November what?
Mr. SPECTER. November 22.
Mr. KELLERMAN. No. November 22 is when they were in the morgue with me. They interviewed me in the office that--it was around the 27th. This was after the funeral.
Mr. SPECTER. Did they have any conversation with you about these events in the morgue?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Not that I recall, sir.
[...]
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, I have read to you a part of what Special Agents O'Neill and Sibert have attributed to you in an interview which they have written about on November 22, 1963. Referring to that in the portion which I have read to you and which I will reread, I want you to direct your attention to the issue about which way you turned. The report states, "He advised he heard a shot and immediately turned around looking past Governor Connally who was seated directly in back of him to the President." Now, did that describe a turn to the right or to the left? This is a difficult question. Let me interject one thing. We are presupposing here, based on your testimony, that you did not discuss with Special Agents O'Neill or Sibert these specific events on November 22, to the best of your recollection as we sit here today.
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.
Mr. SPECTER. So that the question really goes to a situation where perhaps they have an inaccurate day or your recollection is inaccurate as to some of the things you might have told them. So, my prefatory question would be whether that is an accurate statement and is something you told them at some time.
Mr. KELLERMAN. I don't believe I did. I think I will stand on my original statement.
Representative FORD. The original statement you made here today?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; very much.
Mr. SPECTER. So that the statement I just read to you, so far as your best--
Mr. KELLERMAN. I can't--
Mr. SPECTER. So far as your best testimony is at this time, it was simply not made by you on November 22?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. All right, now. Was that statement I just read to you, the short one about your turn, to the best of your recollection at this moment, did you ever make that statement to Special Agents O'Neill and/or Sibert?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, everybody I have talked to I have always turned to the right when I first heard the noise. I turned to my left to view the people in my back seat because it is a more comfortable position. So I don't think the turning is correct, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the report is incorrect?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.
Representative FORD. May I ask--you have viewed these colored motion pictures which were taken during the assassination. Have you looked at those to see what your own actions were during this period of time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Representative FORD. Do they coincide with what you have testified to here today?
Mr. KELLERMAN. They certainly do.
(WC Vol. 2, p. 61 [text])
On 3/12/1964, the Warren Commission's assistant council Arlen Specter interviewed Sibert and O'Neill, asking them about their interactions with Kellerman. As Specter reported:
I also questioned SA Sibert and SA O'Neill about their interviews of ASAIC Kellerman and SA Greer on the portions of the FBI report which Kellerman and Greer have repudiated.
SAs Sibert and O'Neill stated that they interviewed SAs Kellerman and Greer formally on November 27, 1963, and talked to them only informally at the autopsy. SA O'Neill stated that he is certain that he had a verbatim note on Kellerman's statement that the President said "Get me to a hospital" and also that Mrs. Kennedy said "Oh, no." SA O'Neill stated that he was sure those were direct quotes from Kellerman because O'Neill used quotation marks in his report which indicated that he had written those precise words in his notes, which notes have since been destroyed after the report was dictated. SA O'Neill noted that Mr. Kellerman did not repeat that language in the interview of November 27, 1963, and that in the later interview O'Neill took down what Kellerman said without leading or directing him in any way.
(ARRB MD 154)
In later interviews, O'Neill recalled Kellerman telling him that President Kennedy was the only one in the car with a Boston accent (Interview by Harrison Livingstone, 5/20/1991; 4/2/1992 panel discussion at the Franklin Pierce Law Center; ARRB deposition, 9/12/1997 [audio]; Interviews by William Law, In the Eye of History, 2004; Interview by Brian R. Hollstein, 4/6/2005).
No other witnesses claimed to hear the President vocalize words during the shooting. Texas Goveror John Connally, seated in the right-center of the Limousine, told the Warren Commission that after he felt himself being shot, he said "Oh, no, no, no" and "My God, they are going to kill us all". When asked "Did President Kennedy make any statement during the time of the shooting or immediately prior thereto?", Connally replied "He never uttered a sound at all that I heard" (WC Vol. 4, p. 129, 4/21/1964 testimony [text]). First Lady Jacqueline "Jackie" Kennedy, in the left-rear seat, said she heard Connally saying "Oh, no, no, no", but no other words before the fatal head shot (WC Vol. 5, p. 178, 6/5/1964 WC testimony [text]). Mrs. Idanell "Nellie" Connally, in the left-center seat, said that President Kennedy "made no utterance, no cry", and that she heard the Governor say "Oh, no, no, no" and "My God, they are going to kill us all" (WC Vol. 4, p. 146, 4/21/1964 WC testimony [text). Secret Service Agent William Greer, the driver in the left front seat, was asked "Did you hear anyone in the car say anything from the time of the first shot until the time of the third shot?", to which he replied "Not to the best of my recollection, I don't remember" (WC Vol. 2, p. 112, 3/9/1964 WC testimony [text]).
NEXT - Part 4: Missing autopsy photographs showing the interior body/lungs
submitted by JFK_Megaposts to JFKsubmissions [link] [comments]


2019.11.05 06:11 JFK_Megaposts Discussing JFK's torso wounds, Part 1: Intro

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Intro
After the shooting in Dealey Plaza, John F. Kennedy was brought to Parkland Memorial Hospital where the staff made some effort to resuscitate him. Dr. Charles Carrico observed a small bullet wound on the front of Kennedy's neck. Carrico tried to administer a breathing tube (Warren Report, p. 53, Chapter 2: The Assassination, Parkland Memorial Hospital, Treatment of President Kennedy). Then, Dr. Malcolm Perry decided to perform a tracheotomy. When Perry testified to the Warren Commission on 3/25/1964, he described using a scalpel to cut directly over the small throat wound: "...at the time I began the tracheotomy, I made an incision right through the wound which was present in the neck in order to gain complete control of any injury in the underlying trachea. I made a transverse incision right through this wound and carried it down to the superficial fascia, to expose the strap muscles overlying the thyroid and the trachea. There was an injury to the right lateral aspect of the trachea at the level of the external wound. The trachea was deviated slightly to the left and it was necessary to divide the strap muscles on the left side in order to gain access to the trachea" (WC Vol. 6, p. 7 [text]).
Dr. Perry testified again on 3/30/1964:
Dr. PERRY - At the beginning I had removed my coat and watch as I entered the room and dropped it off in the corner, and as I was talking to Dr. Carrico in regard to the neck wound, I glanced cursorily at the head wound and noted its severe character, and then proceeded with the tracheotomy after donning a pair of gloves. I asked that someone call Dr. Kemp Clark, of neurosurgery, Dr. Robert McClelland, Dr. Charles Baxter, assistant professors of surgery, to come and assist. There were several other people in the room by this time, none of which I can identify. I then began the tracheotomy making a transverse incision right through the wound in the neck.
Mr. SPECTER - Why did you elect to make the tracheotomy incision through the wound in the neck, Dr. Perry?
Dr. PERRY - The area of the wound, as pointed out to you in the lower third of the neck anteriorly is customarily the spot one would electively perform the tracheotomy.
This is one of the safest and easiest spots to reach the trachea. In addition the presence of the wound indicated to me there was possibly an underlaying wound to the neck muscles in the neck, the carotid artery or the jugular vein. If you are going to control these it is necessary that the incision be as low, that is toward the heart or lungs as the wound if you are going to obtain adequate control.
Therefore, for expediency's sake I went directly to that level to obtain control of the airway.
Mr. SPECTER - Would you describe, in a general way and in lay terms, the purpose for the tracheotomy at that time?
Dr. PERRY - Dr. Carrico had very judicially placed an endotracheal but unfortunately due to the injury to the trachea, the cuff which is an inflatable balloon on the endotracheal tube was not below the tracheal injury and thus he could not secure the adequate airway that you would require to maintain respiration.
(At this point, Mr. McCloy entered the hearing room.)
Mr. SPECTER - Dr. Perry, you mentioned an injury to the trachea.
Will you describe that as precisely as you can, please?
Dr. PERRY - Yes. Once the transverse incision through the skin and subcutaneous tissues was made, it was necessary to separate the strap muscles covering the anterior muscles of the windpipe and thyroid. At that point the trachea was noted to be deviated slightly to the left and I found it necessary to sever the exterior strap muscles on the other side to reach the trachea.
I noticed a small ragged laceration of the trachea on the anterior lateral right side. I could see the endotracheal tube which had been placed by Dr. Carrico in the wound, but there was evidence of air and blood around the tube because I noted the cuff was just above the injury to the trachea.
[...]
Dr. PERRY - [...] At that point I was down in the trachea. Once the trachea had been exposed I took the knife and incised the windpipe at the point of the bullet injury. And asked that the endotracheal tube previously placed by Dr. Carrico be withdrawn slightly so I could insert a tracheotomy tube at this level. This was effected and attached to an anesthesia machine which had been brought down by Dr. Jenkins and Dr. Giesecke for better control of circulation. [...]
(WC Vol. 3, p. 366 [text])
After Kennedy was pronounced dead, the body was placed into a casket and transported to Dallas Love Field airport, where it was loaded onto Air Force One and flown to Andrews Air Force Base outside of Washington, D. C. The autopsy was performed at Bethesda Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Maryland (WC, p. 58). The lead autopsy pathologist was Dr. James J. Humes, and his two main assistants were Dr. J. Thornton Boswell and forensic pathologist Dr. Pierre Finck.
While the body was still being transported, Dr. Perry appeared at a press conference to discuss the events that transpired. Perry publicly stated that there existed a small bullet wound in the throat below the Adams apple, that it resembled an entrance wound, and that a tracheotomy had been performed (ARRB MD 41 [text]). Before the autopsy had even started, it was public knowledge that Kennedy had a large wound on the right side of the head and a small wound in the throat. On the same day, Dr. Carrico wrote a hospital report describing the throat wound as resembling a bullet entrance: "One small penetrating wound of ant. neck in lower 1/3" (WC Vol. 21, p. 150 [text]). Perry reportedly said on 11/23/1963 the throat wound was "only a few mm in size 3-5 mm" (WC Vol. 17, p. 29). Carrico told the Warren Commission on 3/25/1964 that it was "probably a 4 to 7 mm wound" (WC Vol. 6, p. 1 [text]). However, the body was not properly examined at that time.
The pathologists reportedly couldn't find a whole bullet in Kennedy's body, only shrapnel in the head area. Contrary to the staff at Parkland Hospital who said the throat wound resembled a bullet ENTRANCE, the pathologists officially concluded that a bullet entered the upper back and EXITED the throat. The official autopsy protocol, submitted on 11/24/1963, described a small wound in the back, as well as the trach incision in the throat:
Situated on the upper right posterior thorax just above the upper border of the scapula there is a 7 x 4 millimeter oval wound. This wound is measured to be 14 cm. from the tip of the right acromion process and 14 cm. below the tip of the right mastoid process.
Situated in the low anterior neck at approximately the level of the third and fourth tracheal rings is a 6.5 cm. long transverse wound with widely gaping irregular edges. (The depth and character of these wounds will be further described below.)
[...]
2 . The second wound presumably of entry is that described above in the upper right posterior thorax. Beneath the skin there is ecchymosis of subcutaneous tissue and musculature. The missile path through the fascia and musculature cannot be easily probed.
The wound presumably of exit was that described by Dr. Malcolm Perry of Dallas in the low anterior cervical region. When observed by Dr. Perry the wound measured "a few millimeters in diameter", however it was extended as a tracheostomy incision and thus its character is distorted at the time of autopsy.
The protocol stated it's basic conclusions:
Summary
Based on the above observations it is our opinion that the deceased died as a result of two perforating gunshot wounds inflicted by high velocity projectiles fired by a person or persons unknown. The projectiles were fired from a point behind and somewhat above the level of the deceased. The observations and available information do not permit a satisfactory estimate as to the sequence of the two wounds.
[...]
The other missile entered the right superior posterior thorax above the scapula and traversed the soft tissues of the supra-scapular and the supra-clavicular portions of the base of the right side of the neck. This missile produced contusions of the right apical parietal pleura and of the apical portion of the right upper lobe of the lung. The missile contused the strap muscles of the right side of the neck, damaged the trachea and made its exit through the anterior surface of the neck. As far as can be ascertained this missile struck no bony structures in its path through the body.
(WC D 77 [text])
https://drive.google.com/open?id=14d-TrTWpfhID1Tl8AP0SHnTS793dtFSj (NSFW) - Leaked versions of the official autopsy photographs showing the back wound
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oBvb0A9Sqge-mJVUMxtvt8bsemRTlh5Y (NSFW) - Photos showing the incision in the throat
https://i.imgur.com/CVyzT7a.jpg - Commission Exhibit 385, the drawing by medical illustrator Harold Rydberg used to demonstrate the proposed bullet path through Kennedy's torso (WC Vol. 16, p. 977)
https://i.imgur.com/fxzGGOP.png - The autopsy face sheet diagram, marked during the body examination (ARRB MD 1)
A tissue sample was taken of the skin surrounding the back wound. No sample was reportedly taken from the throat wound. From the 12/6/1963 Supplementary Autopsy Report:
Skin Wounds
Sections through the wounds in the occipital and upper right posterior thoracic regions are essentially similar.
In each there is loss of continuity of the epidermis with coagulation necrosis of the tissues at the wound margins. [...]
(WC Vol. 16, p. 987 [text)
Coagulation necrosis, or coagulative necrosis, is considered very strong physical evidence of a bullet entrance wound (J Forensic Leg Med. 2014 Jul,25:49-52, Histopathological detection of entry and exit holes in human skin wounds caused by firearms by Baptista MV, d'Ávila SC, and d'Ávila AM).
Years after the time of the Warren Commission, the pathologists claimed on a few occasions that an abrasion collar was observed on the back wound (Dr. Finck's testimony at the trial of Clay Shaw, 2/24-25/1969 [text]; ARRB MD 19, p. 6-8, HSCA report on a 8/10/1977 interview with Dr. Humes [text]; JAMA, 5/27/1992 [text]; Boswell's ARRB deposition, 2/26/1996 [text]). A well-known characteristic of entrance wounds, an abrasion collar (or "abrasion ring") is the area of blemished or missing skin around a gunshot wound caused by the friction the projectile moving at an angle. Not all entrance wounds have abrasion collars, and a similar phenomenon can occur with exit wounds – in those cases called "shored exit wounds" (Gunshot Wounds: Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques by Vincent J.M. DiMaio).
The pathologists reportedly observed some bruising on the strap muscles next to the trachea, as well as bruising on the right lung and pleural cavity. From the autopsy protocol:
[...] there is considerable ecchymosis of the strap muscles of the right side of the neck and of the fascia about the trachea adjacent to the line of the tracheostomy wound. The third point of reference in connecting these two wounds is in the apex (supra-clavicular portion) of the right pleural cavity. In this region there is contusion of the parietal pleura and of the extreme apical portion of the right upper lobe of the lung. In both instances the diameter of contusion and ecchymosis at the point of maximal involvement measures 5 cm. Both the visceral and parietal pleura are intact overlying these areas of trauma.
INCISIONS:
The scalp wounds are extended in the coronal plane to examine the cranial content and the customary (Y) shaped incision is used to examine the body cavities.
[...]
Lungs
The lungs are of essentially similar appearance the right weighing 320 Gm., the left 290 Gm. The lungs are well aerated with smooth glistening pleural surfaces and gray-pink color. A 5 cm. diameter area of purplish red discoloration and increased firmness to palpation is situated in the apical portion of the right upper lobe. This corresponds to the similar area described in the overlying parietal pleura. Incision in this region reveals recent hemorrhage into pulmonary parenchyma.
(WC D 77 [text])
A tissue sample of the right lung is further described in the supplementary report:
MICROSCOPIC EXAMINATION
[...]
Lungs
Sections through the grossly described area of contusion in the right upper lobe exhibit disruption of alveolar walls and recent hemorrhage into alveoli. Sections are otherwise essentially unremarkable.
(WC Vol. 16, p. 987 [text)
From the 3/16/1964 Warren Commission testimony of Dr. Humes:
To complete the examination of the area of the neck and the chest, I will do that together, we made the customary incision which we use in a routine postmortem examination which is a Y-shaped incision from the shoulders over the lower portion of the breastbone and over to the opposite shoulder and reflected the skin and tissues from the anterior portion of the chest.
We examined in the region of this incised surgical wound which was the tracheotomy wound and we saw that there was some bruising of the muscles of the neck in the depths of this wound as well as laceration or defect in the trachea.
At this point, of course, I am unable to say how much of the defect in the trachea was made by the knife of the surgeon, and how much of the defect was made by the missile wound. That would have to be ascertained from the surgeon who actually did the tracheotomy.
There was, however, some ecchymosis or contusion, of the muscles of the right anterior neck inferiorly, without, however, any disruption of the muscles or any significant tearing of the muscles.
The muscles in this area of the body run roughly, as you see as he depicted them here. We have removed some of them for a point I will make in a moment, but it is our opinion that the missile traversed the neck and slid between these muscles and other vital structures with a course in the neck such as the carotid artery, the jugular vein and other structures because there was no massive hemmorhage or other massive injury in this portion of the neck.
In attempting to relate findings within the President's body to this wound which we had observed low in his neck, we then opened his chest cavity, and we very carefully examined the lining of his chest cavity and both of his lungs. We found that there was, in fact. no defect in the pleural lining of the President's chest.
It was completely intact.
However, over the apex of the right pleural cavity, and the pleura now has two layers. It has a parietal or a layer which lines the chest cavity and it has a visceral layer which is intimately in association with the lung.
As depicted in figure 385, in the apex of the right pleural cavity there was a bruise or contusion or eccmymosis of the parietal pleura as well as a bruise of the upper portion, the most apical portion of the right lung.
It, therefore, was our opinion that the missile while not penetrating physically the pleural cavity, as it passed that point bruised either the missile itself, or the force of its passage through the tissues, bruised both the parietal and the visceral pleura.
The area of discoloration on the apical portion of the right upper lung measured five centimeters in greatest diameter, and was wedge shaped in configuration, with its base toward the top of the chest and its apex down towards the substance of the lung.
[...]
Commander HUMES - [...] When examining the wounds in the base of the President's neck anteriorly, the region of the tracheotomy performed at Parkland Hospital, we noted and we noted in our record, some contusion and bruising of the muscles of the neck of the President. We noted that at the time of the postmortem examination. Now, we also made note of the types of wounds which I mentioned to you before in this testimony on the chest which were going to be used by the doctors there to place chest tubes. They also made other wounds. one on the left arm, and a wound on the ankle of the President with the idea of administering intravenous. blood and other fluids in hope of replacing the blood which the President had lost from his extensive wounds. Those wounds showed no evidence of bruising or contusion or physical violence, which made us reach the conclusion that they were performed during the agonal moments of the late president, and when the circulation was, in essence, very seriously embarrassed, if not nonfunctional. So that these wounds, the wound of the chest and the wound of the arm and of the ankle were performed about the same time as the tracheotomy wound because only a very few moments of time elapsed when all this was going on. So, therefore, we reached the conclusion that the damage to these muscles on the anterior neck just below this wound were received at approximately the same time that the wound here on the top of the pleural cavity was, while the President still lived and while his heart and lungs were operating in such a fashion to permit him to have a bruise in the vicinity, because that he did have in these strap muscles in the neck, but he didn't have in the areas of the other incisions that were made at Parkland Hospital. So we feel that, had this missile not made its path in that fashion, the wound made by Doctor Perry in the neck would not have been able to produce, wouldn't have been able to produce, these contusions of the musculature of the neck.
(WC Vol. 2, p. 347 [text])
The organs of the neck are not listed in the autopsy protocol or supplementary report. According to Dr. Finck, the organs of the neck were not removed for preservation (ARRB MD 28, Reports From LtCol Finck to Gen. Blumberg (1/25/65 and 2/1/65); testimony at the trial of Clay Shaw, 2/24-25/1969 [text]). Finck also said they didn't dissect the wounds in the torso, and that their handling of the body should not be considered a "complete" autopsy by standards of the American Board of Pathology (Shaw trial testimony, 2/24-25/1969 [text]; Resident and Staff Physician, 5/1972, Observations based on a review of the autopsy photographs, x-rays, and related materials of the late President John F. Kennedy by John Lattimer). The autopsy was also judged to be inadequate by the twelve-doctor Forensic Pathology Panel of the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA Vol. 7, p. 181, 3/29/1979, Medical Panel Report, Part IV. Critique of the earlier examination, with presentation of suggested procedures to be followed in performing an investigation and examination on the remains of a gunshot victim [text]).
There are, however, some statements suggesting the neck organs WERE removed. The 1968 book The Day Kennedy Was Shot by Jim Bishop contains the passage "...Fresh bruises were found on the upper tip of the right pleural area near the bottom of the throat. There were also contusions in the lower neck. Humes called his doctors away from the table and asked the Navy photographer to shoot additional Kodachrome pictures. The lens picked up a bruise in the form of an inverted pyramid. It was a fraction short of two inches across the top, coming to a point at the bottom. A few of the contused neck muscles were removed for further examination". Bishop's sources included interviews with the staff from Gawler's funeral home, as well as Secret Service agent William Greer – as written in the book's epilogue section, "...William Greer, who drove SS-100-X, has retired from the Secret Service. I visited him at his home in Maryland. His wife was ill and it was not a time to badger a man with ugly memories, but he sat and said: “Go ahead. It will take my mind off other things.” The men of Gawler’s Sons were discreet and ethical...". On 1/12/1977, the HSCA interviewed Gawler's funeral home mortician Tom Robinson. Robinson may have indicated that he saw the neck being dissected, not just the chest. He did say, referring to the trach incision, "...those things are done very quickly. By nature of the situation, but it was examined very carefully. The throat was. All that was removed".
Purdy: Tracheotomy. Did you ever hear any discussions that would have indicated why that was the case or what might have caused that, caused obviously the tracheotomy occurred prior to the time the body came there?
Robinson: Yes, those things are done very quickly. By nature of the situation, but it was examined very carefully. The throat was. All that was removed.
[...]
Purdy: Did you close up the head, did you help close up other parts of the body as well?
Robinson: Yes I did.
Purdy: The back and the front?
Robinson: I did the front, yes.
Purdy: Was there much that had to be closed up in the back?
Robinson: I don't remember that. I don't remember anything happened to really be done when I say in the back where the body had to be turned over.
Purdy: When they do the autopsy, they basically open the front up all the way and just look around and they don't have to open the back.
Robinson: ...open him up in the back.
Conzelman: In the region of the throat, when you were putting him back together, did you notice that any large holes other than what could have been through the autopsy?
Robinson: The tracheotomy.
Conzelman: Besides that?
Robinson: And if it was, a bullet wound.
Purdy: Could you tell any kind of a path that the wound had taken from looking in there?
Robinson: No, not really. All that had been removed.
[...]
Purdy: Let me clear one thing about the back. To what extent if any was that back area opened up? Or was that just all in tact?
Robinson: No, it was opened up. The brain had to come out
Purdy: I mean below that wound? In other words the neck and back.
Robinson: It was well examined I recall.
Purdy: In the sense of being cut open or being looked at closely?
Robinson: Yes, I mean looked at and cut.
Purdy: How big a cut, Where would the cut have gone from and to?
Robinson: I don't remember if it went off in many angles. It was not a nice clean cut.
Purdy: So there was a cut open in the neck to look in there.
Robinson: They had this all cut.
Purdy: How far down on the back of the neck did they cut open?
Robinson: That's what's bothering me, I can't recall whether you would say they went into the back or not. I remember seeing the back.
Purdy: So you had to close up the work they did on the neck.
Robinson: Yes, it seems to me that Ed did that.
Purdy: So you don't recall anything
Robinson: You can't have three needles in the same area, somebody is going to get it.
Purdy: So you don't recall anything unusual about the closing up, you don't personally or having talked to Mr. Strogle about it?
Robinson: No.
(ARRB MD 63 [text] [audio]).
During a panel discussion on 4/6/1991, the autopsy's laboratory technician James Jenkins said the thyroid was removed.
Dr. Phillip Williams: Did they take his adrenal glands, do you know?
Jenkins: Took the adrenals, the testes, the pituitary, the thyroid.
Paul O'Connor: Right.
Williams: Alright, then, so if they took the thyroid, then they- they explored this [gesturing towards throat], but at no time did they say that this was a wound?
Jenkins: Dr. Boswell- the- the manner that we did the post was that we would do- we would open up the cavity, we would tie off the subclavian serenals and so forth. And then, we would extract, en masse, by severing the trach at the highest point that we could actually reach. And then, we take it all out, separate the organs- you know, examine the organs by- according to the technique that that particular doctor, whether he would saw such a heart or whether he would actually open up the heart through the vessels.
([Video, 5:34])
When interviewed by researcher Harrison Livingstone on 6/16/1991, Jenkins also said the spinal cord was removed. This is relevant to the shooting because a bullet was supposed to have passed near the spine. Jenkin's claim was denied by Dr. Boswell, as well as Dr. Robert Karnei, another autopsy witness. Dr. Humes refused to comment. As summarized in Livingstone's 1992 book High Treason 2:
[Chapter 6. The Autopsy: Some Conflicts in the Evidence]
[...]
Spinal Cord
Jenkins describes removing the spinal cord with a Stryker saw, but Dr. Karnei does not remember it having been removed. When I tried to ask Dr. Humes if it had been removed, he hung up on me.15 Dr. Boswell told me that the cord was not removed.16
The question of removal and examination of the spinal cord is important because this would tell us if the tuberculosis Kennedy had been exposed to as a child had been reactivated by the steroids he was being given, and only examination of the tissues of the spinal cord would tell this.
Normally during an autopsy the spinal cord is removed and its condition is reported.
Livingstone interviewed Dr. Karnei on 8/27/1991, Dr. Humes on 9/5/1991, and Dr. Boswell 8/7/1991.
[...]
[Chapter 7. Dr. Robert Frederick Karnei]
[...]
"Nobody got a look at the spine area?"
"Not that I remember. I don't remember anybody going into the spinal area to take a look there."
[...]
"In the end, don't you think they performed a complete and good autopsy?"
"I think it was as complete as they were allowed to do. I mean, normally they would have gone into the spinal column and taken the spinal cord and all that sort of thing. And they were not allowed to do that. And there was no way they could have looked at the spinal column there to see if there was any disease in the spinal column."
"They didn't remove the spinal column?"
"No. No. Not that I can remember. I am almost sure they did not touch the spinal column. [...]
[...]
"So the spinal cord was not removed, so there was no opportunity to take tissue samples from it or study whether or not he might have actually had TB of the spine?"
"No, I don't remember the spinal column ever being touched."
[...]
[Chapter 11. James Curtis Jenkins]
[...]
Later the spinal cord was removed-a Stryker saw cut both sides of the vertebral column. Jenkins saw Dr. Boswell remove the spinal cord.12
Both Dr. Boswell,13 and Dr. Robert Karnei, who was present in the autopsy room, deny that the spinal cord was removed. Once again it sounds as though we are talking about two different autopsies.
Part of the problem of trying to solve a case with so much conflicting evidence is the way people's minds play tricks on them. A lot of the witnesses did not see certain things because they were momentarily out of the room or otherwise occupied, so they will compensate by making certain assumptions in their mind which then become fact. If they think that Robert Kennedy was limiting the autopsy and they did not see the spinal cord removed, for instance, then they may state that the spinal cord was not removed because Robert did not want it done.
It is very common under stress for people's minds to imagine that they saw something they did not or to block out the memory of certain events. Jackie K as climbing on the trunk or Nelly Connally going up a flight of stairs.
I am not suggesting that that is what happened here, and that the spinal cord was in fact removed. I don't know at this point. The cord is not properly mentioned in the autopsy report, wheras normally it would be.
From Livingstone's 1993 book Killing The Truth: Deceit and Deception in the JFK Case:
[Appendix J, Encyclopedia of Medical Events And Witness Testimony by Harrison E. Livingstone and Katlee Link Fitzgerald]
[...]
SPINAL CORD
[...]
Doctor Robert Karnei: The spinal cord was not removed. He was quite strong about this. (Aug. 27, 1991)
Jim Jenkins: said that later the spinal cord was removed separately-use of Stryker saw but both sides of the vertical column. Jenkins saw Dr. Boswell remove the spinal cord (a: June 6, 1991) Jenkins thinks the brain stem was severed before it arrived at the autopsy because when they removed it from the head, the spinal cord did not come with it. He also said during the same interview that he did not recall removing the spinal cord and that he would have removed it (a: May 29, 1991)
However, approximately 90% of the time the spinal cord will separate from the brain when the brain is removed.
On 2/26/1996, Dr. Boswell gave his deposition to the Assassination Records Review Board. Strangely, when asked "Were the organs of the neck dissected?", he responded "Yes".
Q. Did you ever understand that there were any orders or instructions to limit the autopsy of the organs of the neck?
A. No.
Q. Were the organs of the neck dissected?
A. Yes.
[...]
Q. Do you see any of the organs of the neck being weighed on Exhibit 1 on the first page?
A. No, and the only organ in the neck would be the thyroid.
Q. Do you know whether the thyroid was removed from President Kennedy?
A. I don't remember that it was. It need not have been necessarily removed. I mean, it could have been examined in situ and not removed. But I do not remember.
Q. With there being a bullet wound transiting the neck, would it not be standard autopsy procedure to remove all of the organs of the neck?
A. Normally it would. The trachea, larynx, and everything.
Q. Do you know whether the trachea, larynx, and thyroid were removed?
A. I'm almost sure that we did not remove the trachea and larynx. I believe the lungs were removed separately. Normally you would take all the neck organs out with the thoracic organs.
Q. Did anyone request that the organs of the neck not be removed?
A. No.
(ARRB, 2/26/1996 [text])
NEXT - Part 2: Clothing evidence
submitted by JFK_Megaposts to JFKsubmissions [link] [comments]


2019.10.23 21:56 TessaBissolli RedSpeak and point of view. ***** SPOILERS *****

A much debated view is wether Red lies to Liz or not. The writers say Red does not lie to Liz, Red said two times he has never lied to Liz
1.17: I have never lied to you.
4.05: I have never lied to you.
and yet the writers make a distinction in what they think and know, and what Red thinks and knows. It is called point of view (POV). I started answering u/HarveyMidnight about this, and remembered I had started on this a long time ago. Maybe it is time to retake it.
In a disclaimer, my definition of truth and lies follows RedSpeak closely, so I know from personal experience Redspeak is borne out of need to avoid the truth and an abhorrence of outright lies, so the mind seeks refuge in a particular way of speaking. The Jesuits called it the doctrine of mental reservation, and use it not to burn at the stakes during the inquisition.
the example used by u/HarveyMidnight was in 1.22:
Liz: Was that your source?
Red: Yes.
Liz: Did he find Berlin?
Red: We’ll have to keep looking.
I understand that his purpose there in the example was deception. So, yes in that narrow definition was a lie, but technically, in MY book, it was not. In normal speak, for anyone else, yes he did lie.
So, let us examine the difference when Red answers clearly and with any subterfuge and when he avoids or misdirects or uses language to obscure:
Liz: Was that your source? Red: Yes
that is what the truth looks like for Red. A simple yes or no answer that is completely unequivocal. And the other part?
Liz: Did he find Berlin? Red: We’ll have to keep looking.
That is an avoidance. He was going to look in that address. He had no certainly he would be there. A "no" answer would have been a lie. A "yes" would be a supposition, but it would have answered the essence of what Liz wanted to know.
The BEST example of Redspeak is this one in
You knew where she was, and you didn't tell me.
She spent most of her life hiding from you. I thought I should honor her request.
I agree. => he agrees that Liz should honer Jennifer's request.
Good. So you accept that she doesn't want to see you.
I do. => he says he accepts Jennifer does not want to see him.
up until then he is intentionally leading her to believe he will not seek Jennifer, but he has not lied, he has answered the question exactly as asked without taking the intended meaning, only the literal. Up until the last bit:
So you won't go and see her?
You heard the good doctor. It appears I'm not supposed to go anywhere.
That was a misdirection. He fully intends to go ("I told Elizabeth I understood why Jennifer wouldn't want to see me. I never said I wouldn't try to see her."), but he is using a way to make her think he is saying he is following the doctor's orders, when in reality he inserts "it appears", which is like the way Sam told the story", "as far as I am concerned", etc.
Dembe calls him on it:
Dembe: You shouldn't be here.
Red: I'm fine. Dr. Lomay has always been a Nervous Nellie.
I'm not talking about Dr. Lomay.- You told Elizabeth –
I told Elizabeth I understood why Jennifer wouldn't want to see me. I never said I wouldn't try to see her.
So, even AFTER Liz had called him on the clever turn of phrase earlier in season 5, and Dembe told him that was lying, we see that Red continues to use THAT definition of lying.
Liz told him he was being dishonest, and Dembe translated to RedSpeak:
Liz to Red: Do you not know, or you can't say? The truth Tom discovered. I asked if you knew about it, and you said, "I can't say." Does that mean you don't know, or is "can't say" some clever turn of phrase that makes it possible for you to be honest and secretive?"
Dembe: "Clever turn of phrase" is a polite way of saying you're being dishonest.
Dembe said it a little more pointedly in 5.08: You're still lying to him and to Elizabeth. Until you stop lying, there will be no peace.
But that illustrates perfectly the need to understand, REALLY UNDERSTAND, what point of view means.
There is the point of view of the writers, what they know to be the truth, in the commonplace way there is: In the example, Red's source did find this guy, so in the writers's minds Red is lying to Elizabeth.
In Liz's POV she would come to realize when Tom takes her there at gunpoint, that Red had been lying.
Dembe would likely agree that Red was lying to Liz, taking the same reading as Liz and the writers.
but the important POV for the lying is what Red thinks about what he says. So, when Red says he has not lied to Liz, or when the writers and show runners say he does not lie to Liz, they are speaking from the POV of the character: Red thinks did not lie to Liz, because he did not say "No, my source did not find Berlin". As it turns out, Red had not. He had found a guy who called himself Berlin too, but not the Berlin was looking for.
So, one cannot go through the things Red had said to Liz and deemed them to be all lies, because this has to be undertaken from his character's point of view.
I know is a lost art, putting oneself in someone else's place, try to see the world as they do, but for a writer, and for anyone looking to understand anything really, is an invaluable tool.
Red did not lie in Red's point of view when he said they would have to keep looking. It skirted dangerously into the outright lie territory, but it stopped short.
So, whenever one tries to parse what Red said, it behooves one to get in Red's POV.
There is no wavering there, no RedSpeak. Had he said: "her name was Carla Reddington", that would have an intent to deceive if he is not the Raymond Reddington who was married to her. Instead his answer is unequivocal.
The pause HAS to be taken into account. That seems to be a very simple question. In a biological sense is a binary choice. In any other sense it could be interpreted. Liz is asking about her biological parent. The pause there shows us a time when Red is struggling with what to answer.
This is the trickiest example. And for it we must go into what had happened in 1.07: he had killed Sam to prevent Sam to babble things to Liz under the influence of the drugs or the disease, his conscience as he lay dying, etc.
We have to remember that Red had told Sam in a promise at Sam's death bed: "You will always be her father, Sam. I can only hope to love her and protect her as you would have."
A deathbed promise carries a very heavy weight. If one is about to kill a dear friend who raised a girl not his own, while following instructions from a dear friend, basically devoting his life to this child, I say that promise is sacred. Breaking that promise is breaking the integrity of one's soul. So, he will NEVER say that he is Liz's father, but he can say she is his daughter.
Want confirmation I am reading it right? The next time she asks in 1.22 he says:
knowing his identity [her father] would put you in grave danger.
Why? Because he's a fugitive on the "Most Wanted" list?
I loved Sam, Lizzy. Taking his life was of all the difficult things that I've done that may may be the most. But I did it to keep you from learning the name of your real father, to protect you. And you must understand-- having done that, I'm certainly not going to tell you who he was now.
When she asks again if he is her father, he tells her that he killed Sam, the most difficult thing that he had done in his life, in order to prevent her from learning the name of her father, who he was now. He cannot answer her question phrased like that, if he is her father, because he had killed Sam to prevent her from finding that out:
I've been friends with Sam for all of yours and most of my life. He was dying. Every part of his body was failing. He was impatient for it to end. He'd asked to be disconnected from all the machines. He was in pain and suffering. And he wasn't thinking clearly. If he were, he would never have chosen to tell you any of it. It wasn't his choice to make. We said goodbye and I put him out of his misery.
That is the reason he finally answered Kirk, after Kirk had asked five times if he was Liz's father. He did not say NO. He said it did not matter, or that he will not answer his question.
Kirk: Are you her father? Are you her father? Answer me....you're gonna have to answer my question.
Red: No.
You're not her father?
No, I'm not gonna answer your question. It doesn't matter. She lived at at your house as your daughter on and off for four years. Sometimes you were there, sometimes you weren't. What difference does it make?
Are you her father?
Sam Milhoan raised her after that.
Are you her father? => This is the fifth time he has asked the same question
It doesn't matter.
I'm gonna ask you one more time. Is Masha your daughter? => This would seem to the the same question but it is not.
What do you want me to say? Yes, she is. Is that what you want me to say? Yes, Elizabeth is my daughter.
ONLY WHEN KIRK ASKS IF SHE IS HIS DAUGHTER does he answer yes. He will never say that he is Liz's father because Sam was her father. In Red's mind that is integrity. Sam is the man who raised her. Only Liz can confer to him again the title of father. But he cannot say Liz is not his daughter without disowning her.
This is the same exact mental gymnastics: as in 1.02
Anyone asks, you're my girlfriend from Ann Arbor.
Absolutely not.
Fine. You can be my daughter.
Not saying "if anyone asks I am your boyfriend," to say that he can be her father, because he will not say this.

EXAMPLES


Red: Contact the Vehm. Tell them to meet us here. I’ll explain everything then. Not before.
The Cardinal: They’re busy
Mm. The FBI raided their chamber of horrors– killed one, captured some others. They’ll talk. And when they do, they’ll talk about you. So, my proposition is this. Do what I’m asking, do it now, and I’ll make sure you go someplace quiet where the FBI will never find you.
Did Red lie? Not at all. he ommitted some information, that the FBI will never find him (alive) because he planned to tell the Vehm the Cardinal lied to them. Red freely shares with Liz and Samar this also in RedSpeak:
Where is the cardinal?
Meeting with congregants. Something about church finances.
The strict truth.

I have it on good authority that his next contract will take him to New York
Excellent authority indeed: himself. He was planning to hire The Freelancer to kill Floriana Campo in New York. He just omitted why he knew this.

What do you know? [about Tom]
Little more than you. Several years ago, it came to my attention that somebody was meddling in my business. To protect myself and my interests, I inventoried my vulnerabilities.
In truth what did Red know about Tom? That he had hired an operative, whom at the time he seems to have known only as Tom Keen, we do not know when did he find out Tom's real identity, Christopher Hargrave. That is the extent of Red's knowledge.
What did Liz know from living with Tom for over 2 years? How did he like his coffee, his eggs, if he was a morning person or a night person, if he knew how to cook. While Liz reacts in anger and in despair at the beginning: " They say love is blind. I certainly was....To the fact that our entire relationship was a lie, that my husband was a spy. The only reason he was with me was because of my connection to Reddington."
But then as she thinks about things, she realizes that she DID know more about Tom than Red did: Our entire marriage, everything that happened. Our fights, the baby. Your laugh. It couldn't have all been pretend. You're not that good an actor. That's why I didn't see it, because so much of it was real.
So, while we think from the audience perspective that Red is lying, because he knows Tom is an operative and he hired him then fired him, in reality, from the characters's perspective, Liz comes to understand that it was not all lies, that a lot of it was truth, so Liz did know a great deal about Tom, even if Red knew that he was an operative. At the time, Red did not even know that Tom was working for his unknown enemy, a fact he only learns when the Cowboy gives him the picture of Jolene and Tom.

Why me?
Because of your father.
What does that mean? Did you know my father? Have the two of you met somehow?
I wish the answer were as simple as the question seems. But the truth is, the question isn’t simple, either. I share your frustration.
Liz has asked 3 questions. She has not made clear what she means by the word father. He answers in an absolute truth, his role as her father is not a simple one, complicated by Sam being the man who raised her and Rostov who acted as her father too.

THE FIGURATIVE DEATHS

Lizzy, your mother is dead.
Lizzy, look at me. I'm telling you, with no uncertainty, your father is dead. He died in that fire.
Since it seems that Katarina is not dead, either because she is now posing as Maddie, her neighbor, or because she is hiding and that woman wants to find her to give her to the people chasing her, we can now read that "code": her parents were figuratively dead. The role of parents was terminated. Sam became Liz's father, and Red promised him he would always be so.

THE IDENTITIES AS SEPARATE PERSONS

Red does a peculiar thing when talking about Liz's mother: he either calls her "your mother" or her full name" Katarina Rostova". That is not normal speech. When he talks to Dom, Constantin, Dembe, The Stranger, or even Kate he does what is normal: "Katarina".
To Dom: I was just imagining young Katarina covered in glitter.
To Dom: You forgave Katarina.... If Katarina were standing here instead of me, if it were she asking you why you did what you did after she'd betrayed you, what would you tell her?
To Dom: The last time you saw Katarina was in the rearview mirror.
To Constantin: You saw what Katarina wanted you to see.... Perhaps I should listen more. Tell me about Katarina.
To Kate: We shared the affection of Katarina... . After Katarina's sudden departure, ...Katarina was a traitor to two countries, both global superpowers. God willing, Katarina's daughter will live a private life of quiet courage...
To Kate: As I feared would happen, elements from Katarina's past are circling Elizabeth like a pack of wolves in the night.
To Dembe: Not when she mentioned Katarina.
To The Stranger: They're actively looking for Katarina..... If Moscow is looking for Katarina
So the use if the full name is a subterfuge designed to avoid Liz from learning things about her mother. Not a lie, but is treating the identity as a separate person:
I knew her as Katarina Rostova. One of her many names. She was a KGB agent.
There was a time in my life when I was quite sure I knew exactly what happened to Katarina Rostova.
Katarina Rostova was the cleverest, most resourceful woman I have ever known.
Katarina Rostova was a name that had been lost to history.
Katarina Rostova committed suicide in 1990.
How many times have I told you? Leave it alone. I warned you. Even saying the name Katarina Rostova has consequences, and now you see. Now you see what that name will make others do.
compare to what he has said to Liz about "her mother"
The girl is you. And the woman is your mother.
The Cabal's been asking about you, Lizzy. They know who your mother was.
Your mother was a Russian spy, and now they've made it look like you are, too
But that doesn't mean your mother is gone. I see her in you every day.
When your mother was pregnant with you, it was terribly inconvenient.
Your mother, despite what he'd done, she wanted him back.
You remind me so much of your mother.
Your mother loved that photograph. Represented everything she wanted but couldn't have
Your mother can't hurt you.
Your mother was not as bad as I understand why you might think she was, but she wasn't.
Over the years, your mother's legend has grown. Mythic spy. Bloodless turncoat. In the process, people forgot the person behind the legend, but I haven't.
So, when Red uses "Katarina Rostova" to Liz is a subterfuge, RedSpeak, a clever turn of phrase.

THE AVOIDANCES

How did you get in here? That's a pretty blouse.
You made it clear. You thought we had a mole. And you wouldn't set foot inside this facility until that mole was captured or dead. Who decided on this paneling?
When we find out what's happened to her-- and we will find out-- if you had anything to do with it, you're gonna spend the rest of your life in a box. Understood? You smell nice. Something new?
Was it true? That story about your family? Was any of it true? We should have gone to Tegucigalpa.
Turns out Jolene Parker doesn't exist. It's an alias. I want to know who she is, and I want to know why the hell she's inserted herself into our lives. I can't answer that. You can't or you won't? Well, that's a matter of interpretation.
Not to me. You said there's always something you're not telling me. Just once, I'd like to hear the whole truth from you. I wish I knew the whole truth.
You have been threatening to tell me the truth about my husband since the day we met, and I'm ready to listen. What do you know? Little more than you.
The way Sam told the story was that one night, an old friend showed up at his door scared. The friend told Sam he was leaving town, that he was in danger and that he needed someone to care for a little girl that her father had died that night in a fire. So Sam took the little girl in, and he raised her as his own always sheltering her from the truth about her biological father. => ONCE HE PREFACES IT WITH THE WAY SAM TOLD THE STORY NOE OF IT HAS TO BE TRUE.
You got to him. I retained his services. In exchange for his silence about my mother. Harold told me the man who infected you was the virologist Andropov. => A SPIN AND AN AVOIDANCE.
Did you even tell her about me? I couldn't. You know how complicated it was.
Do you know what Tom was talking about? When he said he figured it out? Tom was a man of many truths. Which of those he was going to divulge, I can't say.

TRUE ANSWERS THAT ARE NOT APPARENT TO THE INTERLOCUTOR

Lorca got away. Cost of doing business. No, you're not just gonna let him go. He was offensive. You didn't like that. He is on my jet.
How did you pick her? Fate.
He's not like you. He can't just murder someone in cold blood and come out of it okay on the other end. Nobody can murder someone in cold blood and come out okay on the other end.
I was right. There was something he wanted to tell me before he died, and you didn't want me to know. It's not quite that simple.
This is a pivotal conversation:
And that's why you killed him.
I killed Sam because he was in pain and he wanted to die and because I had to protect you from the truth. => THIS IS TRUE.
What truth? The only memory I have of my real father is from the night of the fire. I remember him pulling me out of the flames saving me.
Yes. And knowing his identity would put you in grave danger. => THIS IS TRUE. A CLEAR YES AND A REASON IF CRYPTIC.
Why? Because he's a fugitive on the "Most Wanted" list?
I loved Sam, Lizzy. Taking his life was of all the difficult things that I've done that may may be the most. But I did it to keep you from learning the name of your real father, to protect you. And you must understand-- having done that, I'm certainly not going to tell you who he was now. => WHAT HE IS SAYING IS THAT "THE NAME" OF HER FATHER, "HIS IDENTITY", "WHO HE WAS", not who he is is dangerous for her. Not who he is now, but who he was, his real identity.
to Peter: We've been descending for some time now. Looks like we'll be able to drop you off in time for dinner
Just once, I'd like to hear the whole truth from you. I wish I knew the whole truth.

TRUE ANSWERS WITH AVOIDANCES ON A SEPARATE SUBJECT

Is that what this was about? You getting access to Bobbit's client list? Yes. Find what you were looking for? Good night, Harold.
The day we met, you asked me why I surrendered to the FBI. There were many reasons. One of them was Berlin
this conversation with Liz:
You once said the reason you were here was because of my father. => THIS IS ABOUT THE WUJING CONVERSATION WHICH WAS NOT ABOUT SAM AS HER ADOPTIVE FATHER.
What's this about, Lizzy? => AVOIDANCE IN THE USE OF THE FATHER WORD
Did the two of you know each other? Don't tell me you were friends. You don't have friends.
I knew your father, and he knew me. => IN HERE HE IS GOING WITH SAM AS HER FATHER
Is that why you were in his hospital room the day he died? I talked to you on the phone that day. You never mentioned you were there.
No, I didn't. => A SIMPLE TRUTHFUL ANSWER
There was something he wanted to tell me. I could tell by his voice the last time we spoke. But he didn't. Was that because of you? You were at my father's bedside the day he died. I've been with you almost every day since. You've said nothing not a word. The two of you obviously knew one another, but he never mentioned you. Why? How did you know each other? Why were you there?
I went to see Sam before he died. I said goodbye. => AN INCOMPLETE ACCOUNT BUT TRUTHFUL IN AS FAR AS THAT HAPPENED.
Where's Naomi Hyland? Red: In safe hands. => His hands.
If she is in danger, we will protect her, either from Berlin or you. Who told you she's my daughter? You have no right to have anything to do with that girl, not since the night you abandoned her. => Red is not trying to find Jennifer, but Berlin's daughter.

THE ANSWERS WITHOUT A QUALIFIER OR AVOIDANCE

if anyone can give me a second chance, it's you.
The girl is you. And the woman is your mother.
Dr. Orchard told me someone blocked my memory of that night. Was it you? Yes. Why? I'm not going to tell you.
Tell me what happened. Please. I'm not gonna tell you what happened, Lizzy.
I have you.
You're a monster. Yes. How can you live with that? By saving your life.
I have never lied to you. [from Red's POV, in his definition of a lie]
Tom is on his heels. He's behaving erratically. He killed Jolene Parker. Yes. You knew? Why didn't you tell me? I felt if I told you it would inform your behavior with him.
I lost him. He's gone. No. This whole time, you've never let him out of your sight. Your people are following him now. They are.
Were you in the hospital room when he died? Did you kill my father? Did you kill him? Yes.
It's all just pieces of a much larger puzzle, and until all the pieces are laying in front of you, it won't go together.
Who the hell is Naomi Hyland? She was my wife.
My wife will die.
You want to talk to her perhaps some lingering personal questions you think my ex-wife can answer.
You were there. You were there, weren't you? Yes.
This whole thing, the diner, it wasn't a hostage situation. It was a jail break. Yes.
The daughter of a legendary spymaster, the secret-keeper who disappeared—
You were a child. There should never have been a gun for you to grab. Looking back, I'm not sure I shouldn't have raised you myself. I don't want you looking back with that kind of regret
I'm not conflicted about killing you. I'm conflicted because I can't. Because I can neither kill nor trust nor forgive.
Your mother can't hurt you

MOMENTS IN WHICH HE IS ALONE, OR WITH DEMBE OR DOM

That's my girl.
What do you want from me? A way forward. I can't live for long with what I feel inside. I don't see how anyone can
You think because Masha's dead, now you you can understand me? You can you can share my misery? I feel bereft, just like you.
Elizabeth knows. She knows I was once someone else => Just because we now Reddington is not his real name does not mean he took it in 1991 for the first time

SOMETIMES HE IS WRONG OR DOES NOT KNOW

you need to find Gina. Why? Does she know Tom? Because she's Tom's lover.
from the emotional point of view, this must feel like an extraordinary violation and betrayal. But for Tom it was business. => he then recognizes that Tom married her because he loved her.
You said there's always something you're not telling me. Just once, I'd like to hear the whole truth from you. I wish I knew the whole truth.
Some things seems like he is misinformed, of he does not know everything as when he says Katarina Rosotva committed suicide in 1990. Was that 1991 the first time? We do not know.
We do not know when did Red learn that Tom was Christopher Hargrave.
And we do not know what Red knew of what Katarina had done in the months after the fire, or what had Dom done without telling him or her.
Do Red really knew this: Your mother was never the same after that. The man she loved killed by the child she adored-- it was just too much. Two months later, she went to Cape May and left her clothes on the beach, walked into the ocean, and was never seen again.
Before going berserk, we do not know yet what he knew and when he learned it.
submitted by TessaBissolli to TheBlackList [link] [comments]


2019.10.14 07:53 MarleyEngvall gettysburg address has been created

By Mary Raymond Shipman Andrews THE PERFECT TRIBUTE ON the morning of November 18, 1863, a special train drew out from Washington, carrying a distinguished company. The presence with them of the Marine Band from the Navy Yard spoke a public occasion to come, and among the traveller there were those who might be gathered only for an occasion of importance. There were judges of the Supreme Court of the United States; there were heads of departments; the general-in-chief of the army and his staff; members of the cabinet. In their midst, as they stood about the car before settling for the journey, towered a man sad, preoccupied, unassuming; a man awkward and ill-dressed; a man, as he leaned slouching against the wall, of no grace of look or manner, in whose haggard face seemed to be the suffering of the sins of the world. Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, journeyed with his party to assist at the consecration, the next day, of the national ceme- tery at Gettysburg. The quiet November landscape slipped past the rattling train, and the President's deep-set eyes stared out at it gravely, a bit listlessly. From time to time he talked with those who were about him; from time to time there were flashes of that quaint with which is linked, as his greatness, with his name, but his mind was to-day dispirited, unhopeful. The weight on his shoulders seemed pressing more heavily than he had courage to press back against it, the responsibility of one almost a dictator in a wide, war-torn country came near to crushing, at times, the mere human soul and body. There was moreover, a speech to be made to-morrow to the thousands who would expect their President to say something to them worth the listening of a people who were making history; something bril- liant, eloquent, strong. The melancholy gaze glittered with a grim smile. He—Abraham Lincoln—the lad bred in a cabin, tutored in rough schools here and there, fighting for, snatching at crumbs of learning that fell from rich tables, struggling to a hard knowledge which well knew its own limitations—it was he of whom this was expected. He glanced across the car. Edward Everett sat there, the orator of the following day, the finished gentleman, the careful stu- dent, the heir of traditions of learning and breeding, of scholarly instincts and resources. The self-made President gazed at him wist- fully. From him the people might expect and would get a balanced and polished oration. For that end he had been born, and inheritance and opportunity and inclination had worked together for that end's perfection. While Lincoln had wrested from a scanty schooling a command of English clear and forcible always, but, he feared, rough- hewn, lacking, he feared, in finish and in breadth—of what use was it for such a one to try to fashion a speech fit to take a place by the side of Everett's silver sentences? He sighed. Yet the people had a right to the best he could give, and he would give them his best; at least he would not, so, exhaust their patience. And the work might as well be done now in the leisure of the journey. He put a hand, big, powerful, labor-knotted, into first one sagging pocket and then another, in search of a pencil, and drew out one broken across the end. He glanced about inquiringly—there was nothing to write upon. Across the car the Secretary of State had just opened a package of books and their wrapping of brown paper lay on the floor, torn care- lessly in a zig-zag. The President stretched a long arm. "Mr. Seward, may I have this to do a little writing?" he asked, and the Secretary protested, insisting on finding a better material. But Lincoln, with a few words, had his way, and soon the untidy stump of a pencil was at work and the great head, the deep-lined face, bent over Seward's bit of brown paper, the whole man absorbed in his task. Earnestly, with that "capacity for taking infinite pains" which has been defined as genius, he labored as the hours flew, building to- gether close-fitted word on word, sentence on sentence. As the sculptor must dream the statue prisoned in the marble, as the artist must dream the picture to come from the brilliant unmeaning of his palette, as the musician dreams a song, so he who writes must have a vision of his finished work before he touches, to begin it, a medium more elastic, more vivid, more powerful than any other—words— prismatic bits of humanity, old as the Pharaohs, new as the Arabs of the street, broken, sparkling, alive, from the age-long life of the race. Abraham Lincoln, with the clear thought in his mind of what he would say, found the sentences that came to him colorless, wooden. A wonder flashed over him once or twice of Everett's skill with these symbols which, it seemed to him, were to the Bostonian key-board facile to make music, to Lincoln tools to do his labor. He put the idea aside, for it hindered him. As he found the sword fitted to his hand he must fight with it; it might be that he, as well as Everett, could say that which should go straight from him to his people, to the nation who struggled at his back towards a goal. At least each syllable he said should be chiselled from the rock of his sincerity. So he cut here and there an adjective, here and there a phrase, baring the heart of his thought, leaving no ribbon or flower or rhetoric to flutter in the eyes of those with whom he would be utterly honest. And when he had done he read the speech and dropped it from his hand to the floor and stared again from the window. It was the best he could do, and it was a failure. So, with the pang of the workman who believes his work done wrong, he lifted and folded the torn bit of paper and put it in his pocket, and put aside the thought of it, as of a bad thing which he might not better, and turned and talked cheerfully to his friends. At eleven o'clock on the morning of the day following, on No- vember 19, 1863, a vast, silent multitude billowed, like waves of the sea, over which had been not long before the battle-field of Gettys- burg. There were wounded soldiers there who had beaten their way four months before through a singing fire across those quiet fields, who had seen the men die who were buried here; there were troops, grave and responsible, who must soon go again into battle; there were the rank and file of the everyday American gathering in surging thou- sands; and above them all, on the open-air platform, there were the leaders of the land, the pilots who today lifted a hand from the wheel of the ship of state to salute the memory of those gone down in the storm. Most of the men in that group of honor are now passed over to the majority, but their names are not dead in American his- tory—great ghosts who walk still in the annals of their country, their flesh-and-blood faces were turned attentively that bright, still No- vember afternoon towards the orator of the day, whose voice held the audience. For two hours Everett spoke and the throng listened untired, fascinated by the dignity of his high-bred look and manner almost as much, perhaps, as by the speech which has taken a place in litera- ture. As he had been expected to speak he spoke, of the great battle, of the causes of the war, of the results to come after. It was an oration which missed no shade of expression, no reach of grasp. Yet there were those in the multitude, sympathetic to a unit as it was with the Northern cause, who grew restless when this man who had been crowned with so thick a laurel wreath by Americans spoke of Ameri- cans as rebels, of a cause for which honest Americans were giving their lives as a crime. The days were war days, and men's passions were inflamed, yet there were men who listened to Edward Everett who believed that this great speech would have been greater unen- forced with bitterness. As the clear, cultivated voice fell into silence, the mass of people burst into a long storm of applause, for they knew that they had heard an oration which was an event. They clapped and cheered him again and again and again, as good citizens acclaim a man worthy of honor whom they have delighted to honor. At last, as the ex- Governor of Massachusetts, the ex-ambassador of England. the ex-Secretary of State, the ex-Senator of the United States—handsome, distinguished, graceful, sure of voice and of movement—took his seat, a tall, gaunt figure detached itself from the group on the platform and slouched slowly across the open space and stood facing the audience. A stir and a whisper brushed over the field of humanity, as if a breeze had rippled a monstrous bed of poppies. This was the President. A quivering silence settle down and every eye was wide to watch this strange, disappointing appearance, every ear alert to catch the first sound of his voice. Suddenly the voice came, in a queer, squeaking falsetto. The effect on the audience was irrepressible, ghastly. After Everett's deep tones, after the strain of expectancy, this extraordinary, gaunt apparition, this high, thin sound from the huge body, were too much for the American crowd's sense of humor, always stronger than its sense of reverence. A suppressed yet unmis- takable titter caught the throng, ran through it, and was gone. Yet no one who knew the President's face could doubt that he had heard it and understood. Calmly enough, after a pause almost too slight to be recognized, he went on, and in a dozen words his tones had gathered volume, he had come to his power and dignity. There was no smile now on any face of those who listened. People stopped breathing rather, as if they feared to miss an inflection. A loose-hung figure, six feet four inches high, he towered above them, conscious of and quietly ignoring the bad first impression, unconscious of a charm of personality which reversed that impression within a sen- tence. That these were his people was his only thought. He had something to say to them; what did it matter about him or his voice? "Fourscore and seven years ago," spoke the President, "our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedi- cate a portion of it as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. "But in a larger sense we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it far beyond our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us, the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth." There was no sound from the silent, vast assembly. The Presi- dent's large figure stood before them, at first inspired, glorified with the thrill and swing of his words, lapsing slowly in the stillness into lax, ungraceful lines. He stared at them a moment with sad eyes full of gentleness, of resignation, and in the deep quiet they stared at him. Not a hand as lifted in applause. Slowly the big, awkward man slouched back across the platform and sank into his seat, and yet there was no sound of approval, of recognition from the audience, only a long sigh ran like a ripple on an ocean through rank after rank. in Lincoln's heart a throb of pain answered it. His speech had been, as he feared it would be, a failure. As he gazed steadily at these his countrymen who would not give him even a little perfunctory ap- plause for his best effort, he knew that the disappointment of it cut into his soul. And then he was aware that there was music, the choir was singing a dirge; his part was done, and his part had failed. When the ceremonies were over Everett at once found the Presi- dent. "Mr. President," he began, "your speech—" but Lincoln had interrupted, flashing a kindly smile down at him, laying a hand on his shoulder. We'll manage not to talk about my speech, Mr. Everett," he said. "This isn't the first time I've felt that my dignity ought not to permit me to be a public speaker." He went on in a few cordial sentences to pay tribute to the orator of the occasion. Everett listened thoughtfully and when the chief had done, "Mr. President," he said simply, "I should be glad if I could flatter myself that I came as near the central idea of the occa- sion in two hours as you did in two minutes." But Lincoln shook his head and laughed and turned to speak to a newcomer with no change of opinion—he was apt to trust his own judgments. The special train which left Gettysburg immediately after the solemnities on the battle-field cemetery brought the President's party into Washington during the night. There was no rest for the man at the wheel of the nation next day, but rather added work until, at about four in the afternoon, he felt sorely the need of air and went out from the White House alone, for a walk. His mind still ran on the events of the day before—the impressive, quiet multitude, the serene sky of November arched, in the hushed interregnum of the year, between the joys of summer and the war of winter, over those who had gone from earthly war to heavenly joy. The picture was deeply engraved in his memory; it haunted him. And with it came a soreness, a discomfort of mind which had haunted him as well in the hours between—the chagrin of the failure of his speech. During the day he had gently but decisively put aside all reference to it from those about him; he had glanced at the head-lines in the newspapers with a sarcastic smile; the Chief Executive must be flattered, of course; newspaper notices meant nothing. He knew well that he had made many successful speeches; no man of his shrewdness could be ignorant that again and again he had earned an audience by storm; yet he had no high idea of his own speech-making, and yesterday's affair had shaken his confidence more. He remembered sadly that, even for the President, no hand, no voice had been lifted in applause. "It must have been pretty poor stuff," he said half aloud; "yet I thought it was a fair little composition. I meant to do well by them." His long strides had carried him to the outskirts of the city, and suddenly, at the corner, from behind a hedge, a young boy of fifteen years or so came rushing toward him and tripped and stumbled against him, and Lincoln kept him from falling with a quick, vigor- ous arm. The lad righted himself and tossed back his thick, light hair and stared haughtily, and the President, regarding him, saw that his blue eyes were blind with tears. "Do you want all of the public highway? Can't a gentleman from the South even walk in the streets without—without—" and the broken sentence ended in a sob. The anger and the insolence of the lad were nothing to the man who towered above him—to that broad mind this was but a child in trouble. "My boy, the fellow that's interfering with your walking is down inside of you," he said gently, and with that the astonished youngster opened his wet eyes wide and laughed—a choking childish laugh that pulled at the older man's heart-strings. "That's better, sunny," he said, and patted the slim shoulder. "Now tell me what's wrong with the world. Maybe I might help straighten it." "Wrong, wrong!" the child raved; "everything's wrong," and launched into a mad tirade against the government from the Presi- dent down. Lincoln listened patiently, and when the lad paused for breath, "Go ahead," he said good-naturedly. "Every little helps." With that the youngster was silent and drew himself up with stiff dignity, offended yet fascinated; unable to tear himself away from this strange giant who was so insultingly kind under his abuse, who yet inspired him with such a sense of trust and of hope. "I want a lawyer," he said impulsively, looking up anxiously into the deep-lined face inches above him. "I don't know where to find a lawyer in this horrible city, and I must have one—I can't wait—it may be too late—I want a lawyer now," and once more he was in a fever of excitement. "What do you want with a lawyer?" Again the calm, friendly tone quieted him. "I want him to draw a will. My brother is—" he caught his breath with a gasp in a desperate effort for self-control. "They say he's— dying." He finished the sentence with a quiver in his voice, and the brave front and the trembling, childish tone went to the man's heart. "I don't believe it—he can't be dying," the boy talked on, gathering courage. "But anyway, he wants to make a will, and—and I reckon—it may be that he—he must." "I see," the other answered gravely, and the young, torn soul felt an unreasoning confidence that he had found a friend. "Where is your brother?" "He's in the prison hospital there—in that big building," he pointed down the street. "He's captain in our army—in the Confed- erate army. He was wounded at Gettysburg." "Oh!" The deep-set eyes gazed down at the fresh face, its muscles straining under grief and responsibility, with the gentlest, most fatherly pity. "I think I can manage your job, my boy," he said. "I used to practise law in a small way myself, and I'll be glad to draw the will for you." The young fellow had whirled him around before he had finished the sentence. "Come," he said. "Don't waste time talking—why didn't you tell me before?" and then he glanced up. He saw the ill- fitting clothes, the craglike, rough-modelled head, the awkward car- riage of the man; he was too young to know that what he felt beyond these was greatness. There was a tone of patronage in his voice and in the cock of his aristocratic young head as he spoke. "We can pay you, you know—we're not paupers." He fixed his eyes on Lincoln's face to watch the impression as he added, "My brother is Carter Hampton Blair, of Georgia. I'm Washington Blair. The Hampton Court Blairs, you know." "Oh!" said the President. The lad went on: "It would have been all right if Nellie hadn't left Washington to-day—my sister, Miss Eleanor Hampton Blair. Carter was better this morning, and so she went with the Senator. She's secretary to Senator Warrington, you know. He's on the Yankee side"—the tone was full of contempt—"but he's our cousin, and when he offered Nellie the position she would take it in spite of Carter and me. We were so poor"—the lad's pride was off its guard for a moment, melted in the soothing trust with which this stranger thrilled his soul. It was a relief to him to talk, and the large hand which rested on his shoulder as they walked seemed an assurance that his words were accorded respect and understanding. "Of course, if Nellie had been here she would have known how to get a lawyer, but Carter had a bad turn half an hour ago, and the doctor said he might get better or he might die any minute, and Carter remembered about the money, and got so excited that they said it was hurting him, so I said I'd get a lawyer, and I rushed out, and the first thing I ran against you. I'm afraid I wasn't very polite." The smile on the gaunt face above him was all the answer he needed. "I'm sorry. I apologize. It certainly was good of you to come right back with me." The child's manner was full of the assured graciousness of a high-born gentleman; there was a lovable quality in his very patronage, and the suffering and the sweetness and the pride combined held Lincoln by his sense of humor as well as by his soft heart. "You sha'n't lost anything by it," the youngster went on. "We may be poor, but we have plenty more to pay you, I'm sure. Nellie had some jewels, you see—oh, I think several things yet. Is it very expensive to draw a will?" he asked wistfully. "No, sonny; it's one of the cheapest things a man can do," was the hurried answer, and the child's tone showed a lighter heart. "I'm glad of that, for, of course, Carter wants to leave—to leave as much as he can. You see, that's what the will is about—Carter is engaged to marry Miss Sally Maxfield, and they would have been married now if he hadn't been wounded and taken prisoner. So, of course, like any gentleman that's engaged, he wants to giver her everything that he has. Hampton Court has to come to me after Carter, but there's some money—quite a lot—only we can't get it now. And that ought to go to Carter's wife, which is what she is— just about—and if he doesn't make a will it won't. It will come to Nellie and me if—if anything should happen to Carter." "So you're worrying for fear you'll inherit some money?" Lincoln asked meditatively. "Of course," the boy threw back impatiently. "Of course, it would be a shame if it came to Nellie and me, for we couldn't ever make her take it. We don't need it—I can look after Nellie and my- self," he said proudly, with a quick, tossing motion of his fair head that was like the motion of a spirited, thoroughbred horse. They had arrived at the prison. "I can get you through all right. They all know me here," he spoke over his shoulder reassuringly to the President with a friendly glance. Dashing down the corridor in front, he did not see the guards salute the tall figure which followed him; too preoccupied to wonder at the ease of their entrance, he flew along through the big building, and behind him in large strides came his friend. A young man—almost a boy,too—of twenty-three or twenty-four, his handsome face a white shadow, lay propped against the pillows, watching the door eagerly as they entered. "Good boy, Warry," he greeted the little fellow; "you've got me a lawyer," and the pale features lighted with a smile of such radiance as seemed incongruous in the gruesome place. He held out his hand to the man who swung toward him, looming mountainous behind his brother's slight figure. "Thank you for coming," he said cordially, and in his tone was the same air of a grand seigneur as in the lad's. Sud- denly a spasm of pain caught him, his head fell into the pillows, his muscles twisted, his arm about the neck of the kneeling boy tightened convulsively. Yet while the agony still held him he was smiling again with gay courage. "It nearly blew me away," he whispered, his voice shaking, but his eyes bright with amusement. "We'd better get to work before one of those little breezes carries me too far. There's pen and ink on the table, Mr.—my brother did not tell me your name." "Your brother and I met informally," the other answered, setting the materials in order for writing. "He charged into me like a young steer," and the boy, out of his deep trouble, laughed delightedly. "My name is Lincoln." The young officer regarded him. "That's a good name from your standpoint—you are, I take it, a Northerner?" The deep eyes smile whimsically. "I'm on that side of the fence. You may call me a Yankee if you'd like." "There's something about you, Mr. Lincoln," the young Georgian answered gravely, with a kind and unconscious condescension, "which makes me wish to call you, if I may, a friend." He had the happy instinct which shapes a sentence to fall on its smoothest surface, and the President, in whom the same instinct was strong, felt a quick comradeship with this enemy who, about to die, saluted him. He put out his great fist swiftly. "Shake hands," he said. "Friends it is." "Till death us do part," said the officer slowly, and smiled, and then threw back his head with a gesture like the boy's. "We must do the will," he said peremptorily. "Yes, now we'll fix this will business, Captain Blair," the big man answered cheerfully. "When your mind's relieved about your plunder you can rest easier and get well faster." The sweet brilliant smile of the Southerner shone out, his arm drew the boy's shoulder closer, and the President, with a pang, knew that his friend knew that he must die. With direct, condensed question and clear answer the simple will was shortly drawn and the impromptu lawyer rose to take his leave. But the wounded man put out his hand. "Don't go yet," he pleaded, with the imperious, winning accent which was characteristic of both brothers. The sudden, radiant smile broke again over the face, young, drawn with suffering, prophetic of close death. "I like you," he brought out frankly. "I've never liked a stranger as much in short order before." His head, fair as the boy's, lay back on the pillows, locks of hair damp against the whiteness, the blue eyes shone like jewels from the colorless face, a weak arm stretched protectingly about the young brother who pressed against him. There was so much courage, so much helplessness, so much pathos in the picture that the President's great heart throbbed with a desire to comfort them. "I want to talk to you about that man Lincoln, your namesake," the prisoner's deep, uncertain voice went on, trying pathetically to make conversation which might interest, might hold his guest. The man who stood hesitating controlled a startled movement. "I'm Southern to the core of me, and I believe with my soul in the cause I've fought for, the cause I'm—" he stopped, and his hand caressed the boy's shoulder. "But that President of yours is a remarkable man. He's regarded as a red devil by most of us down home, you know," and he laughed, "but I've admired him all along. He's inspired by principle, not by animosity, in this fight; he's real and he's powerful and"—he lifted his head impetuously and his eyes flashed—and, by Jove, have you read his speech of yesterday in the papers?" Lincoln gave him an odd look. "No," he said, "I haven't." "Sit down," Blair commanded. "Don't grudge a few minutes to a man in hard luck. I want to tell you about that speech. You're not so busy but that you ought to know." "Well, yes," said Lincoln, "perhaps I ought." He took out his watch and made a quick mental calculation. "It's only a question of going without my dinner, and the boy is dying," he thought. "If I can give him a little pleasure the dinner is a small matter." He spoke again. "It's the soldiers who are the busy men, not the lawyers, now- adays," he said. "I'll be delighted to spend a half hour with you, Captain Blair, if I won't tire you." That's good of you," the young officer said, and a king on his throne could not have been gracious in a more lordly yet unconscious way. "By the way, this great man isn't any relation of yours, is he, Mr. Lincoln?" "He's a kind of connection—through my grandfather," Lincoln acknowledged. "But I know just the sort of fellow he is—you can say what you want." "What I want to say first is this: that he yesterday made one of the great speeches of history." "What?" demanded Lincoln, staring. "I know what I'm talking about." The young fellow brought his thin fist down on the bedclothes. "My father was a speaker—all my uncles and my grandfather were speakers. I've been brought up on oratory. I've studied and read the best models since I was a lad in knee-breeches. And I know a great speech when I see it. And when Nellie—my sister—brought in the paper this morning and read that to me I told her at once that not six times since history began has a speech been made which was its equal. That was before she told me what the Senator said." "What did the Senator say?" asked the quiet man who listened. "It was Senator Warrington, to whom my sister is—is acting as secretary." The explanation was distasteful, but he went on, carried past the jog by the interest of his story. "He was at Gettysburg yes- terday, with the President's party. He told my sister that the speech so went home to the hearts of all those thousands of people that when it was ended it was as if the whole audience held its breath— there was not a hand lifted to applaud. One might as well applaud the Lord's Prayer—it would have been sacrilege. And they all felt it —down to the lowest. There was a long minute of reverent silence, no sound from all that great throng—it seems to me, an enemy, that it was the most perfect tribute that has ever been paid by any people to any orator." The boy, lifting his hand from his brother's shoulder to mark the effect of his brother's words, saw with surprise that in the strange lawyer's eyes were tears. But the wounded man did not notice. "It will live, that speech. Fifty years from now American school- boys will be learning it as part of their education. It is not merely my opinion," he went on. "Warrington says the whole country is ringing with it. And you haven't read it? And your name's Lincoln? Warry, boy, where's the paper Nellie left? I'll read the speech to Mr. Lincoln myself." The boy had sprung to his feet and across the room, and had lifted a folded newspaper from the table. "Let me read it, Carter— it might tire you." The giant figure which had crouched, elbows on knees, in the shadows by the narrow hospital cot, heaved itself slowly upward till it loomed at its full height in the air. Lincoln turned his face toward the boy standing under the flickering gas-jet and reading with soft, slid- ing inflections the words which had for twenty-four hours been gall and wormwood to his memory. And as the sentences slipped from the lad's mouth, behold, a miracle happened, for the man who had written them knew that they were great. He knew then, as many a lesser one has known, that out of a little loving-kindness had come great joy; that he had wrested with gentleness a blessing from his enemy. "'Fourscore and seven years ago,'" the fresh voice began, and the face of the dying man stood out white in the white pillows, sharp with eagerness, and the face of the President shone as he listened as if to new words. The field of yesterday, the speech, the deep silence which followed it, all were illuminated, as his mind went back, with new meaning. With the realization that the stillness had meant, not indifference, but perhaps, as this generous enemy had said, "The most perfect tribute ever paid by any people to any orator," there came to him a rush of glad strength to bear the burdens of the nation. The boy's tones ended clearly, deliberately: "'We here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that the government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.'" There was a deep stillness in the hospital ward as there had been stillness on the field of Gettysburg. The soldier's voice broke it. "It's a wonderful speech," he said. "There's nothing finer. Other men have spoken stirring words, for the North and for the South, but never before, I think, with the love of both breathing through them. It is only the greatest who can be a partisan without bitterness, and only such to-day may call himself not Northern or Southern, but Ameri- can. To feel that your enemy can fight you to death without malice, with charity—it lifts country, it lifts humanity to something worth dying for. They are beautiful, broad words and the sting of war would be drawn if the soul of Lincoln could be breathed into armies. Do you agree with me?" he demanded abruptly, and Lincoln an- swered slowly from a happy heart. "I believe it is a good speech," he said. The impetuous Southerner went on: "Of course, it's all wrong from my point of view," and the gentleness of his look made the words charming. "The thought which underlies it is warped, in- verted, as I look at it, yet that doesn't alter my admiration of the man and of his words. I'd like to put my hand in his before I die," he said, and the sudden, brilliant, sweet smile lit the transparency of his face like a lamp; "and I'd like to tell him that I know that what we're fighting for, the best of us, is the right of our country as it is given us to see it." He was laboring a bit with the words now as if he were tired, but he hushed the boy imperiously. "When a man gets so close to death's door that he feels the wind through it from a larger atmosphere, then the small things are blown away. The bitterness of the fight has faded from me. I only feel the love of coun- try, the satisfaction of giving my life for it. The speech—that speech —has made it look higher and simpler—your side as well as ours. I would like to put my hand in Abraham Lincoln's——" The clear, deep voice, with its hesitations, its catch of weakness, stopped short. Convulsively the hand shot out and caught at the great fingers that hung near him, pulling the President, with the strength of agony, to his knees by the cot. The prisoner was writhing in an attack of mortal pain, while he held, unknowing that he held it, the hand of his new friend in a torturing grip. The door of death had opened wide and a stormy wind was carrying the bright, con- quered spirit into that larger atmosphere of which he had spoken. Suddenly the struggle ceased, the unconscious head rested in the boy's arm's, and the hand of the Southern soldier lay quiet, where he had wished to place it, in the hand of Abraham Lincoln. 
The Perfect Tribute, by Mary Raymond Shipman Andrews from The Scribner Treasury : 22 Classic Tales, © 1953, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York pp. 317 - 331
یہ آپ کی جگہ ہے ایک دوسرے کے ساتھ حسن سلوک کرو۔ https://old.reddit.com/thesee [♘] [♰] [☮]
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2019.09.25 00:02 barkoholic Need help identifying some weird plants I inherited when my mom died. Advice Wanted!

Hey reddit! A coworker suggested I try my questions here, since I haven’t been able to find any useful help elsewhere. I hope I’m posting in the right place; it’s difficult to navigate all these options. Besides, I’ve only gotten about six hours of sleep in as many days, and I hardly feel like myself. Now that I think of it, I probably should have gotten around to this sooner, but I’ve had no time to myself at all; there’s been too much to do.
Last month, my mother died. It was very sudden, but not entirely unexpected - she’s been fighting lung cancer for the past ten years. We just thought she had more time, that’s all. I did, anyway.
My mother wasn’t the warmest of people - it was difficult for me to come up with a convincing eulogy to read at the funeral, truth be told - but she was extremely well-organized and neat. When we were kids, my sister and I used to joke that she divorced my father because his breathing disturbed her oxygen collection too often, but I don’t know if that’s very far from the truth. She died of a pulmonary infection, which is perhaps a final irony. She was the literal definition of a neat freak, and the concept of dying from a bacterial infection would have offended her. Even her kitchen garbage can was regularly scrubbed and polished; it still smelled of Lysol the day she died. Her downstairs neighbor heard her fall and called the cops for a welfare check when she wouldn't respond to a knock on the door.
If I don't seem super broken up about it, that's probably because I'm not. We never had a close relationship; Nellie and I lived with our dad from the time of the divorce onwards. We mostly only saw our mom on holidays, or the monthly Saturday afternoons we spent at the mall or restaurant with her. She asked us about school, then college, then church, and I don’t think I can recall a single conversation outside of those topics. The result was that none of us had much to say; Nellie and I both hated school, and we quit going to church when Dad stopped taking us.
Once Nellie turned eighteen, two years after I did, those visits abruptly stopped. Dad had warned us this would probably be the case, and it didn’t come as any sort of shock; I’m not sure how many years it had been since we’d been invited into her home. Six? Eight?
The point is: I have no idea when she started keeping plants.
I don’t even know why. She never liked anything even faintly reminiscent of nature; the hardwood floors in her fancy sky-rise apartment had disgusted her for weeks until she’d been able to get linoleum to cover them. And I truly believe she’d have crucified any kind of animal before allowing it to step foot in her home. If you’d asked me six weeks ago if my mother might like a small houseplant, I’d have gone into a panic attack over imagining her reaction!
As of her death, she had about three dozen houseplants in her little two-bedroom apartment. This wasn’t even a trendy-accent thing; that, I could have understood. She liked to keep up with some of the more elitist housekeeping trends. But this was more than just a little unlike her. One of the bedrooms had been her office; at some point she must have given up her work (she was a freelance ghost writer) and turned it into a plant sanctuary. I wish we’d thought to take photos before beginning to pack things up; it was actually kind of beautiful. It reminded me of some sort of ancient temple; there was that same sacred stillness in the air.
Nellie thinks it was probably her effort to purify the air in her home without the use of unsightly ionizers and humidifiers. I guess that’s as good a reason as anything I could think up.
I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry at the joke the universe played on her about it. The doctor who performed the autopsy said it was an infection of psuedomonas aeruginosa - which means she caught some kind of bug from her plants and, due to her immunocompromised state, it took off and ate her up from the inside. It's one of those 'one in a million' cases that never happens unless life's already shit on you enough.
She was only fifty-eight when she died. We were fairly sure she was in remission. But that was all appearances - she confided in absolutely nobody. When we tried to talk to her about it, she was cold and stiff and disapproving, as was the norm if we were anything but formal with her. We only knew she had cancer because she’d sent Nellie and I certified letters informing us how to get ahold of her will, in case she died, after her initial diagnosis four years ago. I was permitted a single phone call to confirm that I had reached out to her lawyer to provide my contact information, and she dismissed me from any further questions - or, god forbid, comfort.
Which brings me to the point. Her will.
Most of it was what we’d expected. She had a decent chunk of money, most of which she left to her university. Nellie and I got a few thousand apiece, plus several pieces of jewelry, and some of her furniture which she had decided would go nicely with our own home decor (which was oddly considerate of her). Our dad, of course, got absolutely nothing. All in all, it was mostly predictable - except for two things.
For one, she owned six beautiful properties in Orlando, Florida - properties none of us had ever heard of before. Two small houses, two condos, and two apartments. All of them are gorgeous, a short drive from main tourist attractions, as fully upgraded and decorated as they can get (including brand new in-ground pools and hot tubs for the houses!) and they apparently are all booked solid for the next eight months.
You want to know how I know all this? Because she also had a property manager, a team of maids, a brand-new iPhone with its own business line, and an AirBnB account, all dedicated to those properties. Yesterday I picked everything up from the safety deposit box where she'd kept it all. She’d started a very efficient little business which practically ran itself, and can easily support both Nellie and I, as well as Nellie’s family (she just had twin sons with her wife, who can’t work due to her own health issues)...and she never mentioned it to us.
What a hag. I know she was my mother, and I know you’re not supposed to speak ill of the dead...but I both admire and hate her for this. Nellie has been scraping by on welfare for years, and I haven’t been much better off.
The worst part is that the business was left to me - on the single condition that I keep and maintain all thirty-nine houseplants until, and I quote, “the end of their natural expected lifespan, with the best of all health conditions and husbandry”. That’s right, y’all. For some inexplicable, possibly sadistic reason, she left all of her plants to me alone. Every damn one of them. There were thirty-nine plants in that apartment, and precious little else besides some clothing and furniture we were able to resell. I asked the lawyer, and I can’t even split them between Nellie and I, or redistribute them amongst her Orlando properties.
And she couldn’t even make it easier on me by leaving a binder or notebook full of instructions for everything. The lawyer had a short list of some of the plants; mostly the ones that covered every flat surface outside of the weird ‘temple’ she’d created. I can handle those pretty well with Google and Facebook to turn to for advice. Those were all easy to look up - she had a couple sago palms, some ferns, a lot of snake plants, things like that. There were mixed pots of succulents crowding the tops of tables, and tons of pothos everywhere - either hanging from hooks in the ceiling, or trailing off countertops. There was even a basketed one trailing leaves off the back of the damn toilet.
But there are a few plants we can’t identify, and I have no idea how to go about keeping them alive so I can get the business. These six were in the place of honor in her little bedroom-temple - just in front of the eastern window, where they’d catch the first rays of morning sun every day. The weird thing about them is that while they all look very different in person, there’s some weird reflective quality their leaves share. None of them turn up well in photos; either they just develop as weird big balls of light, or as black shadows. I can’t get a photo I could upload to identify them with, unfortunately, and I’m having no luck looking them up.
These are the ones I’m posting about, because she referred to them in really strange ways in her will, and my Google-fu is not up to par. She wrote about them, apparently interchangeably, as “Hell’s half-dozen”, “the seeds of Eden”, “flowers of demons’ semen”, and “the angelic children”, which turn up absolutely nothing useful and call her mental state into serious question. But maybe those will ring a bell for one of you, I don’t know.
I guess they could be something she’d cross-bred herself, which would explain the strangely maternal way she wrote about them. But I have no idea how to figure out what they need based on such bullshit information, if you’ll pardon my French, and I really want those properties.
So I was hoping I could write down some unique qualities of these plants, and if y’all can help a boy out and tell me what you think they might be, or offer any suggestions on care, I’d appreciate it!
First plant: big girls, look almost identical to a variegated monstera, if you switched the creamy white splotches out for ashy black. There’s two of these.
They’re definitely healthy, though, and putting out new leaves, so they must like where I’ve got them - but I don’t know when to fertilize and when I tried to check the soil acidity, it read 19. Obviously that has to mean that the pH reader is broken, but I tried four of them with the same result, so I don’t know. They’re maybe about six feet tall, leaves the size of my face, planted in big stone pots approximately 18” wide. It’s really hard to move these pots, and I’m kind of worried something may be wrong with their soil, but I don’t really want to repot them unless I absolutely have to. They seem to be doing okay.
Second plant: looks kind of like wolfsbane but it drips. I hate this one.
It’s actually kind of pretty - the flowers are a little darker than the pictures I’ve seen of wolfsbane, and the foliage is really thick and bright green. But the flowers are constantly oozing this thick golden sap which, even though it smells like honey, grosses me out.
I think something’s wrong with it. It can’t be meant to ooze like that all the time. Like, I had to put the whole pot in a big bucket, until it was full enough that I got worried for my carpet, and when I tried to rinse the bucket out in my bathtub, it ATE the porcelain! I’m really mad about this! Now my bathtub has a huge hole in the bottom that goes straight through to the wood floorboards. The wood seems to have just absorbed it, and there's a big weird stain on it, but whatever. I'm just mad I have to get one of those ugly plastic bathtub jobs done now, because no way can I afford another vintage claw-footed tub insert.
Third plant: I am pretty sure this is some kind of fig tree, which is confusing, because there’s no way my mom ever had it outside, and figs only fruit if they have access to wasps. At least, that’s what I’ve read. But this one is super fruitful; in fact, there are new fruits ripening every day. I’ve been harvesting them every morning so they won’t fall on the floor and start rotting into the carpet, but I haven’t eaten any of them.
I’m not sure it’s safe; I think the fruit is poisoned, or maybe there was some kind of weird problem with this one’s pollination. I keep finding dead wasps all over my house, even in my bed, since moving the plants into my house. It took me a few days to realize it, but they seem to be coming from the fig tree, although I can’t find any kind of nest and I can’t catch them coming out of it anywhere. It's increasing, too - yesterday I found twenty four of the little fuckers in the plant room I set up. Today there were thirty two. They're always dead, so I haven’t gotten stung yet, but I’m just waiting for it to happen.
It looks almost like a bonsai, but it's like four feet tall so it's probably too large to be one of those. It's got a really thick trunk, though, and it's just kind of...gnarled. It's really scarred-up. Oh, and there’s a pearl rosary strung around the central few branches, right before it starts to crown out into thick foliage where the fruit is. I have no idea how or why that got there. My mother was not Catholic.
Fourth plant: I am 100% sure this is a calla lily, also known as zantedeschia aethiopica, and I know that because my ex-boyfriend used to grow them in a little greenhouse out back to show at the state fair. I’d know these flowers anywhere, I swear to god, but this one has to be some weird kind of hybrid.
It looks kind of like the ‘Red Desire’ colorant, which is super rare, but it smells off, and just doesn’t like anything I do to it! I got really excited about this one because Zack had taught me just about everything about them, and we still hook up sometimes (when his girlfriend is out of town) so I figured I could get his help about it. He did come over once, to his credit, to check it out. But he got a really weird look on his face after touching the spathe, actually shit himself, and then ran out the door and never came back! I guess I wouldn’t either if I was in his shoes. But I had to get his car towed after a couple days since he wouldn’t answer my calls and I couldn’t get out of my own damn driveway.
It perked up a little about a day after that. I can’t figure out how to keep it that way, though, and it’s already starting to droop again. No amount of water or fertilizer seems to do it, and I've moved it into shadow and put it in bright direct light with absolutely no effect whatsoever. Lately it's started to smell a little better; it's kind of a tangy, sweet smell. I'm hesitant to touch it, though. Zack's the one who's good at that kind of stuff.
Fifth plant: this was in the place of honor in my mom’s apartment, front and center on a big marble coffee table. It’s not a very large plant; it almost looks like some kind of dwarf corpse flower, and it smells like one too. It stinks worse than Zack’s shitstained pants did when he ran out of my house.
But it’s really a beautiful plant, and it can’t actually be a corpse flower because the bloom hasn’t died. It’s been in my house for two weeks and the flower actually seems to be getting brighter. I don’t know how that’s possible, but it started out kind of old-steak burgundy, and now it’s a vivid crimson color, like fresh blood. Also, the spadix is kind of wiggly? I’ve never seen it move, but once or twice a day it sort of curls in on itself in a different direction, sort of like a nerve plant’s leaves do. It looks kind of like a cobra, actually; the tip is flared and usually at a right angle to the rest of the spadix’s length. It always seems to be looking toward the sun. It’s kind of cute.
If it didn’t stink so badly I might actually like it. It kind of freaks me out, though; I guess I must hear the rustling of the spadix moving around to follow the sun, but it sounds like whispering. I swear I’ve been able to make out a word or two, even, in the past few days. I can never hear it once I actually am in the room, though. Or maybe I’m just going nuts. I don’t know.
I really want that business, but there’s something really cool about the plants, too (except the stupid honey one!! I hate that one so much, if I could get rid of one I would). It’s kind of calming to take care of them, and my sinus problems have improved a lot since having them. I don’t really care for the smell of the big flower, but honestly, it’s kind of growing on me. Maybe I’ll get used to it.
Anyway, if anyone has any advice, I’d really appreciate it. I just quit my job and I’m trying to learn as much as I can about gardening so I can take good care of my mom's plants. Thanks!
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2019.09.13 19:02 impalemee What would it take from your SO for you to really end an unknown ap, after you were caught.

I’m wondering if SO kept a secret Ap and just through his LD one under the bus. Well trickle truthed us both.
Women are beautiful lovely vulnerable and fierce, all in one enchanting bundle...
I can understand my So attraction to them. Different eyes, hair nipples, personalities, tatstes. Independent carving out their own life... really wish I knew how t do that, so far it seems an affair is on way that I could but I can’t do it... No desire for another man, so how would you take back your power?
I recently began yet another quest to truly know my husband not just the part he shows me and our family the entire part of him.
Similarly to when we met and before we had children I would try to figure him out. Even his texts to OW were just surface topics.
It was difficult until I found that he rather step out than confront the thorny issues (non-confrontational) he is such a manly man, I don’t understand this communication style from someone who in my eyes is a tall fat and handsome alpha guy.
I never thought he was having an affair because when my Dad was having one he was HAPPY. The NRE the suspense he had a bad temper threw things we were dysfunctional but one thing was true it was written all over his face. He also was very open about my mother only sleeping with him on holidays.
In our home no sex for a week that’s an act of war. We had anal during post partum... not as a duty but because I’ve always sought my husband out, there are people that will b willing to fuck their SO and then there are us that seek them out to seduce them.
I saw everything play out growing up. My Father being preoccupied with his own hobby.
Thought I could avoid it. Maybe I encouraged it by being such a yes girl loving him more than myself. When my WH would recoil when I cried I knew something started.
It’s such a long story but let’s say your wife stopped asking for things she could do her self. “If this is what it took for us to see what we have , for me to see how sad you had become: them I’m grateful for your affair” Let’s say She didn’t go a night with out lingerie tried to up her social sophistication...she was exhausted from guessing in the past, I should have watched his behavior his words were “I’m just tired from work”
I’m not sure if he had two APs recently the one I found out about was out of state. An LD one. After my std panel he admitted to escorts however I think that is to protect the identity of previous APs.
I want to love my husband compassionately healthily. I’ve become hyper vigilant lost 70 lbs. now. I’m starting to become so self aware that it’s now occurring to me, he may never want to quit no matter how close I become to what he wanted? It’s ironic that the NRE and honeymoon phase is almost impossible with someone with out separating and creating distance. Maybe I am driving him away spoiling him or it’s too late.
Female APs please Help! :) I read your posts most of you have been ignored like me and carved out and took what you wanted I admire it, does that happen specifically after an affair or is the affair a result of that “being done with bs”?
I know you may identify and relate with his AP but he is the type that denies feels for his exAp that she meant nothing. Oh yes he said horrible things about me. We both cried over it. Some of you have been cheated on and neglected. For instance my husband began with porn addiction. I tried to meet his needs but I just wasn’t in shape I was grappling with post partum.
I think he caught the NRE and feels and has detached. So how does one get that back-he says he’s done but how should I know for sure -I can’t spy on him and be a monitor of him that’s the opposite dynamic I want. What if he is trying to end it with her how can I be there for him. I know he is amazing in bed I know he is brilliant witty, possibly out of my league but if he suggests we stay together, and my rut is partially from raising our two young toddlers during his ongoing affairs I think I deserve a chance. See there I go being entitled I’m not sure I need to be like that.
I’ve been fighting like a samurai that has lost their life already-not one that is trying to stay alive. Meaning I’m trying so hard. I’ll admit I’m close to exhausting my emotional and physical resources.
What do I do? I know I’ve had avictim mentality. I’m not innocent, I lashed out I asked for things aggressively. He treated me as an emotional burden but honestly I was so codependent I believe I was just a nightmare at some times. Not fishing for compliments I don’t want to hear he is an A/hole... he is human we are all human if we get a second chance we would cherish it right? Or is that connect gone?
I want to see the light and delight dance behind his beautiful brown eyes more and more often. Pleasing him pleases myself. We had sex 7 times in one day but sex doesn’t solve everything.
And if you are his AP:( thank you for making him happy, thank you for showing him another side of life, he has been extremely sweet to me and the sex for the last 6 months it’s always been great to me but this is amazing, but the shame and grief he experienced after all was out was intense I almost had to put him back together while I was processing that all those days and nights that match up with the phone bill I was right. He unintentionally acted distant he would even look at me when I was naked. Playing on his phone, he would shove my head down, I would complain that I wanted to French kiss him. During those times I wanted him so badly to come back to our reality...
(his other AP the one I suspect he kept secret is a single 25 year old I’m 32 With csection scars my boobs are deflating.... )
I can prove who I am I just really want to save my marriage. I’m open to a man mentoring me but a woman would know exactly what to do on the feminine side.
What if he panicked and was so ashamed he committed to reconciliation and didn’t really want it??
I keep asking he swears he’s changed but I know him. I know him like you know your AP AND your SO. That sheepish look the love bombing, that sporadic let’s go do something, on the same day he couldn’t call. Compensating. Pretending to be in a good coma lol awe man... do I get an A for acceptance?
The same days your iPhone shows you went up flights of stairs. Please I’m one of the SO’s that IS trying.
What can I do, that spouse repulsion you experienced? What could end that? What could make the adulterer come back?
How do I act when I’m almost certain he’s gone back to her. He’s non confrontational and one coworker who was a self professed homewrecker, was his partner. What if he’s just can’t end it. I even told him, just give us a chance a real undistracted chance and he says “ofcourse I never cheated on you here in this state”
yeah sure, but he ghosts people when they upset him or he never tells them and will be painfully passive aggressive and stonewall.
He went from not wanting more kids to wanting to try, it would be crazy if it was a diversion?! How can I know what’s real? I’ve lost a lot of weight new hair style held a newborn last week the sexy pic of me in thigh highs contrasting with me holding a little new born nephew.... I want to take ecstasy, and go to edm festivals, have threesomes with hot brunettes -I want to be hot. I want a third baby with him of course it’s what I wanted last winter and he would roll his eyes. Now HE wants to try for a “beautiful baby with your eyes”
I’m not sure how to determine: 1) if he is sincere 2) how to behave when some of those tells are presenting for instance he used to meet up every Wednesday.... how do I act when he goes to Home Depot to go get that prepaid Visa card for AM or tinder. His dual SIM card. He possibly completely innocent but trickle truthing does this.
The ugly truth is prettier than a pretty lie so can you tell me what I should do besides revenge cheating. The hysterical bonding, makes it difficult to detach, it doesn’t go away. ** TLTR: SO cheated with unknown AP or escorts (says a few were escorts said last one was an AP but I knew who she was because he acted obviously and I promised amnesty and an exit for him with out child support etc he still didn’t want to admit to having an affair he gaslit me basically telling me I’m insecure) 2014 to 2019 off and on various AP activity says he never cheated here (we move a lot) but did cheat every where else. It meant nothing he says he was trying to save our marriage he trickle truthed. I’m wondering how to carve out my own life, with out the attention of an AP of my own. (No desire for another man my SO is enough he’s a manly tall dark and handsome guy sheepish grin; huge dick:) likes to eat pussy for no reason dangerous devilish handsome looks angelic face ;)
Your wondering why I dropped the ball, it was post partum, death of my Mother and moving two times in a year, living next to my in laws who, needed me to babysit, and we were renovating.
I suffered through post partum first child he was deployed 2nd one he was present but having affairs. We are compatible, cynics optimistic, I went through a rut during the post partum I went full throttle extremist. He watches flat earth so I mean I didn’t go all the way. —
Let’s just say I fucked up he was cool with that almost as an opportunity to justify endless AP but the truth was he disliked me, physically I attracted to me, I became a negative nelly a strain and possibly and emotional vampire. He now wants another child go figure it almost destroyed us.— He’s detached along time ago I can’t detach long enough for him to realize my value to him... He has tells there are a few signs he has a local AP and in my self awareness I’ve realized he possibly never stopped just gave up the LD AP. I told him I know about pineapples I know about all the references and the lifestyle I know all men cheat or have... that I wanted a fighting chance his undivided attention. I don’t know how to behave on the days that it’s almost glaringly obvious that he is seeing this suspected pap she is a self proclaimed gone wreck at his work she’s 10 years younger and looks like a dream to men and a nightmare for women (to me a dream because I’m bi-but that’s a line I don’t want to cross with him specifically yet-he couldn’t follow the rules of monogamy and threesomes require a lot of trust I’m there but not there all the way in that regard I wouldn’t want to have a melt down during a threesome like some kind of narcissist)
I need help I need comments from men and women call it paying it forward anything you wish, he’s not an a/hole we were crappy he stepped out I dug in. I need to break the dynamic I need actual examples of what I should do how I should act on days he acts suspicious. I lost 70 lbs I’m exhausted and can’t keep guessing what he wants and he’s too passive aggressive and the trickle truth kind of makes it where I don’t know what end is up anymore.* Holy crap my TLTR is too long to read—**
TTLTR: I just want to know how to adult. I was in a rut; need examples of how to act or react t certain things that may or may not be happening I need to get my mind off the affair. Go back to being a awesome Mom but not too good of a Mom or I’m being black /and white and I need to find a middle ground. I suspect a secret AP is in the wings. We are in a reconciliation but it could be a false reconciliation. He is love bombing hot and cold. He can only tolerate me when I’m extremely happy. If I’m vulnerable or insecure it’s kills his mood and he recoils. Yeah it’s not fair to me but I can’t be an emotional vampire I have to fix myself...
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